Robin Williams plays a 10-year-old boy who looks like a 40-year-old man in the 1996 Francis Ford Coppola film Jack—a movie that wants to be a dramedy but is actually a body horror flick about boomers and their mortality. Paul, Jason, and June cover Fran Drescher's inexplicable attraction to Jack, Bill Cosby farting in the treehouse, if Jennifer Lopez was tempted to be Jack's date, why Jack was NOT a shooting star, and so much more. Plus, Paul shares a childhood story about an awkward hotel check-in experience with his mom.
Robin Williams plays a 10-year-old boy who looks like a 40-year-old man in the 1996 Francis Ford Coppola film Jack—a movie that wants to be a dramedy but is actually a body horror flick about boomers and their mortality. Paul, Jason, and June cover Fran Drescher's inexplicable attraction to Jack, Bill Cosby farting in the treehouse, if Jennifer Lopez was tempted to be Jack's date, why Jack was NOT a shooting star, and so much more. Plus, Paul shares a childhood story about an awkward hotel check-in experience with his mom.
[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: It's big, but way more disturbing. We saw Jack, so you know what that means.
[00:00:07] Music: [Intro Song]
[00:00:09] Paul Scheer: Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am Paul Scheer, and today we are talking about the 1996 dramedy, uh, Jack, which is a film that stars Robin Williams as a 10-year-old boy with a genetic condition causing him to age four times faster than normal, meaning that, uh, when he is about 10, he looks 40.
[00:00:31] And after years of being homeschooled by his overprotective parents, who are Diane Lane and Brian Kerwin, Jack enrolls in a regular fifth grade class, where he develops a crush on his teacher, played by Jennifer Lopez, and attempts to make friends for the first time, and even adult friends with Fran Drescher.
[00:00:49] And yes, this film was directed by Francis Ford Coppola. We're gonna get into it all, but let me introduce my two brilliant co-hosts, Jason Mantzoukas-
[00:00:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:00:59] Paul Scheer: ... and June Diane Raphael. How are you both?
[00:01:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, you know what? Uh, not to peel the curtain back too much, but when- Paul, Paul did an, a, a, an aborted, uh, intro to the show-
[00:01:08] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:01:09] Jason Mantzoukas: And called June and I brilliant earnestly-
[00:01:12] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:01:12] Jason Mantzoukas: ... like, caught himself short, and then did the intro you just did, and I felt like that brilliant had some spice on it.
[00:01:20] Paul Scheer: You know, look, a- anyone can interpret the way that I'm saying the word brilliant in any which way. They can do the same way-
[00:01:27] June Diane Raphael: You never said it before.
[00:01:27] Paul Scheer: The way people can interpret-
[00:01:29] Jason Mantzoukas: So never.
[00:01:29] Paul Scheer: ... you know, the legend of Billie Jean. Um-
[00:01:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I mean- geez, a belt dad. I mean- ... I, I cannot stop thinking about belt dad.
[00:01:38] June Diane Raphael: Um, I just have to stop the podcast for a second, because I didn't know this movie was directed by Francis Ford Coppola.
[00:01:45] Paul Scheer: Oh, yes.
[00:01:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wait. Are we really stopping the podcast?
[00:01:47] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:01:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Because we can talk about the fact that this is... Yes. This is a-
[00:01:53] June Diane Raphael: I didn't know that
[00:01:53] Jason Mantzoukas: ... Francis Ford Coppola...
[00:01:53] June Diane Raphael: I didn't know that until this moment. I thought you were doing a bit.
[00:01:56] Paul Scheer: No, no. And by the way, June, there's a little, uh, a little Easter egg here, because in that opening Halloween party scene, there's a woman dressed as a wine bottle from Francis Ford Coppola's vineyard.
[00:02:07] So that's the little... That's how you know. That, like-
[00:02:09] June Diane Raphael: The fuck?
[00:02:09] Paul Scheer: You know, Hitchcock would walk across the screen. Uh, Coppola puts a-
[00:02:12] June Diane Raphael: The fuck?
[00:02:12] Paul Scheer: ... woman in a wine bottle in every movie.
[00:02:14] Jason Mantzoukas: You mentioned this in the intro, but w- is this before or after Big?
[00:02:20] Paul Scheer: Oh, way after.
[00:02:21] June Diane Raphael: That's a great question.
[00:02:21] Paul Scheer: It's 1996. As a matter of fact-
[00:02:23] Jason Mantzoukas: But what year is Big?
[00:02:24] Paul Scheer: Big is '80s.
[00:02:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay.
[00:02:26] Paul Scheer: Yeah, Big is-
[00:02:27] June Diane Raphael: Is this before or after The Godfather?
[00:02:29] Paul Scheer: Uh, this is actually before The Godfather. That is a good question. A lot of people think this is after The Godfather. And it-
[00:02:35] June Diane Raphael: Wow.
[00:02:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep. Yeah. It goes Godfather I, it goes Jack, uh, Megalopolis, Godfather II- ... The Conversation.
[00:02:46] June Diane Raphael: Oh my God.
[00:02:46] Paul Scheer: He is coming off, uh, in all sincerity, he is coming off Godfather Part III. About six years ago he does Godfather Part III, and then he makes this-
[00:02:54] Jason Mantzoukas: He does the John Grisham mo- he does Rain Maker, he does, like, he does a bunch of, like, kind of duds, including this movie.
[00:03:01] Paul Scheer: Well, here's the thing.
[00:03:02] June Diane Raphael: This movie.
[00:03:03] Paul Scheer: Robin Williams said, "I will only do this movie if you hire Francis Ford Coppola."
[00:03:08] Now, I was wondering if that is because they are friends and he felt like his career was a little bit on shaky ground at this point, and he's like, "You know what? Let me try to get my friend a, a big, a big movie." Uh, and I don't think it worked out so well.
[00:03:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Can you im- here's what I'll say. Can you imagine just how much worse this movie would have been were it not for Francis Ford Coppola?
[00:03:31] You know, because-
[00:03:32] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:03:33] Jason Mantzoukas: ... this movie, I will say-
[00:03:34] June Diane Raphael: I don't know what to think.
[00:03:35] Jason Mantzoukas: ... It's, the movie is, I mean, we can get into it 'cause the movie is straight nuts. Um, uh, now out of curiosity, 'cause this is a kind of, this... Wow. What is it about one of these movies that, that this generation kept wanting to make movies where they were younger- versions of themselves, where they got to-
[00:03:54] June Diane Raphael: Honestly, I really-
[00:03:56] Jason Mantzoukas: ... experience youth again ...
[00:03:57] June Diane Raphael: I, I, I thought about this, Jason. I think that-
[00:03:59] Jason Mantzoukas: And I felt a way about it watching it now differently than I felt about these type of movies when I watched them as a young person. Sorry, go ahead, June.
[00:04:08] June Diane Raphael: Well, no, I think that we must have been dealing with something as a culture where adulthood or the American dream or it was not what we had hoped it would be.
[00:04:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:04:22] June Diane Raphael: And the disappointment of that, the feeling like we can't have two, you know, two and a half kids, and we can't have the house, and we can't afford, and the jobs are not what, and this isn't what we thought and s- and there is a rejection of being an adult and-
[00:04:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:04:41] June Diane Raphael: ... a desire to, to have adults be children.
[00:04:44] Paul Scheer: I, I disagree with you both fundamentally-
[00:04:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Interesting.
[00:04:47] Paul Scheer: ... On this and say that this is high art disguised as low art. It's like, "Hey, I wanna make a movie about what it's like for kids who are going through issues, but I'll do it in a funny way," right? 'Cause I think this is a, this is a really saccharine metaphor for, you know, for kids who have cancer, right? Or maybe have-
[00:05:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Sure, sure.
[00:05:11] Paul Scheer: ... you know, like-
[00:05:11] Jason Mantzoukas: For different, for different kids.
[00:05:12] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, yeah ...
[00:05:13] Paul Scheer: right, who, kids who can't maybe go to school and have been held home. I think where the movie falls apart is because it's so heightened that that metaphor really falls apart, because I think at the end of the day you're supposed to be like, "Oh, just because he's a 40-year-old man, he is just like us. We just, we just have to get to know him," right? Yes. Yes, he looks different.
[00:05:32] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree with you.
[00:05:32] Paul Scheer: And it just sort of feels-
[00:05:33] Jason Mantzoukas: It has, like, those kind of melodrama elements to it, 'cause it is. It's not, it's not playing the big game of like-
[00:05:41] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:05:41] Jason Mantzoukas: ... oh, a kid gets to be an adult. What's he gonna do?
[00:05:44] Paul Scheer: It's not wish fulfillment, and I think-
[00:05:45] Jason Mantzoukas: It's not at all. It's not told... It's almost not even told from a childlike point of view.
[00:05:49] Paul Scheer: No, it's so odd, and I know that, like, Coppola was like, "Oh, this is my follow-up to Peggy Sue Got Married." But, like, Peggy Sue Got Married is such a different idea, 'cause he is a child who just looks like Robin Williams, and I have a lot of issues with this disease that he has-
[00:06:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[00:06:06] Paul Scheer: Where he ages in fours. So it's like when he's one he's four, but when he's four he's eight.
[00:06:10] Jason Mantzoukas: It's really like Dog Years.
[00:06:11] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:06:12] Jason Mantzoukas: It's really, it- it's an algorithm to figure out how he's aging.
[00:06:16] June Diane Raphael: What a horrible... But here's the thing.
[00:06:18] Jason Mantzoukas: But it's, it's... Yeah, go ahead.
[00:06:18] June Diane Raphael: Here's what's so strange about the movie. He, when he's... so it's, we meet him and he's going to fifth grade. He's 10, correct?
[00:06:26] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:06:27] June Diane Raphael: He's 10.
[00:06:27] Jason Mantzoukas: But is 40? Is that right?
[00:06:29] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:06:29] June Diane Raphael: But is 40, yes.
[00:06:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Okay. Please go ahead.
[00:06:30] June Diane Raphael: But he is, we are told over and over again that he is mentally 10 years old.
[00:06:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:36] June Diane Raphael: But that kid that I meet, that's not a 10-year-old.
[00:06:40] Movie Audio: Ah.
[00:06:41] What happened?
[00:06:41] Ow.
[00:06:41] What'd you do? Where does it hurt?
[00:06:53] My knee.
[00:06:53] Let me see.
[00:06:53] Oh, oh. Oh.
[00:06:53] Well, it's not bleeding.
[00:06:53] Okay. It's not?
[00:06:53] I can fix it for you.
[00:06:54] Okay.
[00:06:54] I'll take care... okay. I'll bite it.
[00:06:55] No, no.
[00:06:56] I'll bite it.
[00:06:56] No, don't bite it.
[00:06:56] I really do.
[00:06:57] No.
[00:06:58] I have to bite it.
[00:06:58] Don't.
[00:06:59] Yeah. It'll get infected.
[00:07:00] Yeah, okay. Okay. But this leg has got to come off. I'll get your father's saw.
[00:07:04] No, no. No, no, don't get that. Sorry, bud.
[00:07:12] Paul Scheer: You think younger?
[00:07:13] June Diane Raphael: That's, that's... And this is where the movie falls apart. It's like, oh, I would buy if this was actually, like, the energy of a 10-year-old, but he had the energy of someone who just was mentally, and I'm not, I'm, I don't, I hope this isn't an ir- He seemed mentally unwell. I don't care if he's 10- I don't care if he's 40, he seemed mentally-
[00:07:40] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, he is-
[00:07:40] Paul Scheer: Well, he is in a house ...
[00:07:42] June Diane Raphael: Unwell.
[00:07:42] Jason Mantzoukas: He is very sheltered, he's very socially, like, not acclimated to the world or to other chil- I agree with you though, and my, 'cause I had a very similar note, which is he felt the same kid age throughout all of the ages-
[00:07:57] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:07:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Until he's a valedictorian, and even then-
[00:08:00] June Diane Raphael: Even then, Jason.
[00:08:00] Jason Mantzoukas: ... He seems like maybe 12. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like- I think that he's- He, I couldn't, he couldn't dial it in, and the, I think that w- it, the hardest thing for me was, like, he couldn't quite dial it in, and because the movie wasn't sure exactly what world it lived in, I found it much more successful when Robin Williams was being a kid amongst kids than Robin Williams being a kid amongst adults.
[00:08:25] Paul Scheer: Well, because I, I think you're right. There's a couple things-
[00:08:28] Jason Mantzoukas: That created the most dissonance for me. Like, when he was with his parents-
[00:08:32] June Diane Raphael: Oh, it, uh, it was all-
[00:08:33] Jason Mantzoukas: ... who he's older than, uh, looking and, but acting like a kid, I couldn't, I, it-
[00:08:39] June Diane Raphael: I didn't like it, but it was all-
[00:08:40] Jason Mantzoukas: The, the magic trick didn't work for me as much.
[00:08:42] June Diane Raphael: Upsetting. But here's my question: I know he's been trapped, I know he's been trapped in a house. Why can't he sit in a desk-
[00:08:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah ...
[00:08:49] June Diane Raphael: Properly?
[00:08:49] Paul Scheer: Well, but he can s- But look.
[00:08:51] Jason Mantzoukas: That's gotta be Robin Williams.
[00:08:51] Paul Scheer: Like, why would he even, why would he even attempt to sit in a child's desk?
[00:08:55] Jason Mantzoukas: That just reeks of Robin Williams.
[00:08:56] June Diane Raphael: But also, that desk wasn't that small. Like, if that's the joke they were going for-
[00:09:00] Paul Scheer: For sure.
[00:09:01] June Diane Raphael: ... They missed that. That desk, any one of us c- would see that structure, and this is where I really struggled, would see, oh, there's a chair and there's a thing, and then you sit your body. We would all sit in that desk correctly.
[00:09:13] Paul Scheer: If we're gonna go pull it out, then I'm gonna say, why were his parents dressing him like an old man?
[00:09:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, let's not talk about pulling it out. Let's, let's, let's not talk about pulling it out.
[00:09:22] Paul Scheer: Um- I mean, his parents dressed him for failure, right? 'Cause every other kid in this movie is dressed like a kid, and he is dressed in, like, a m- he's, like, he's wearing tan on tan.
[00:09:33] He doesn't look like a kid. The posters for the movie make him look more like a kid-
[00:09:38] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:09:39] Paul Scheer: ... than he does in the movie, and I find that to be so odd. And I guess your argument could be like, "Well, they don't make kid clothes for 40-year-olds." But they could make him a little bit more fashionable.
[00:09:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Wasn't there also a Martin Short movie with this?
[00:09:52] Paul Scheer: That was Clifford, but he was playing-
[00:09:55] June Diane Raphael: That's Clifford, yeah.
[00:09:55] Paul Scheer: ... he was pl- Clifford was a child played by Martin Short But the acknowledgement was that he was a child. It was never an adult. It was a-
[00:10:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay.
[00:10:08] Paul Scheer: Just an adult playing a child.
[00:10:09] Jason Mantzoukas: It wasn't a, it, it, it's not
[00:10:09] Paul Scheer: And a very funny-
[00:10:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay, got it.
[00:10:10] Paul Scheer: ... a very funny movie. Him and Charles Grodin are great.
[00:10:12] Jason Mantzoukas: I ha- I realize I don't think I've seen any of these movies but Big. And this, this one, d- this was this is... I c- what I also couldn't figure out was who is this movie for? Like, it, it wasn't-
[00:10:24] Paul Scheer: Adults.
[00:10:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, it is for Adults, I'd say ... adults, I think. And it- It.
[00:10:27] Paul Scheer: It's for the parents of Jacks.
[00:10:28] Jason Mantzoukas: ... the nostalgia of being a kid. And the, if you notice, all the music ancillary to the movie is all, like, '50s doo-wop.
[00:10:35] Paul Scheer: Well, that, that's what I wanted to bring up is like-
[00:10:37] Jason Mantzoukas: And I'm like, w- what are we doing?
[00:10:39] Paul Scheer: When you talked about how he is just generic kid-
[00:10:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah ...
[00:10:43] Paul Scheer: it feels like the movie is also the '50s.
[00:10:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:10:46] Paul Scheer: It feels like we're in Stand By Me world. It, th- th-
[00:10:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Or Pleasantville or Happy Days or something.
[00:10:51] Paul Scheer: This is 1996. I'm a kid in 1996, and they're play-
[00:10:56] June Diane Raphael: It's video games.
[00:10:56] Paul Scheer: Y- they, like, they're, they're up in a tree house looking at nudie magazines like, again, like kids-
[00:11:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, no, that part I thought was cool. Now, that's the part that I was like, "Okay, this, I, this, this seems like the '90s, baby."
[00:11:09] June Diane Raphael: But here's the thing, here's what I didn't understand, though, is they, at the end, they go to such lengths, even the bullies, even the original bullies, to come back to get him.
[00:11:19] They're outside staging, like, you know, a weeks-long rally to get him out of the house-
[00:11:25] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:11:25] June Diane Raphael: ... When he locks himself in. But- I didn't understand what, what was he offering these people? Aside from Penthouse magazines and aside from being tall enough to shoot a basketball, what kind of impact did he make on this community of kids?
[00:11:41] Jason Mantzoukas: I, oh, I, great. Yeah. So- Go ahead ... Paul, go ahead, Paul.
[00:11:43] Paul Scheer: No, you, you, you take it and I will follow up 'cause mine is a-
[00:11:46] Jason Mantzoukas: What is, who, who is the protagonist? Whose arc are we following?
[00:11:51] June Diane Raphael: Louie? I don't know.
[00:11:52] Jason Mantzoukas: What are, who, who are we meant to... Like, nothing really demonstrably happens f- to anybody of real significance or import.
[00:12:01] Exactly what you're saying. Yes, he buys some nudie mags, but it never goes so far as to be like the, every, everybody... I do feel like this is about boomers and their mortality. Um, he, they-
[00:12:12] Paul Scheer: Oh, yes. It's very much-
[00:12:13] Jason Mantzoukas: ... they never get into buying booze or having, uh, sex or, you know, the, I did-
[00:12:19] Paul Scheer: Because these kids are too young. They're in fifth grade ...
[00:12:19] Jason Mantzoukas: The moment, yes. Yes. The moment where he tries to ask out J.Lo, I thought was very sweet. Like, there are really sweet moments in this movie that because-
[00:12:28] Paul Scheer: It's so sad, man.
[00:12:29] Jason Mantzoukas: ... B- yes, because he's good at doing that, um, turning on that, like, absolute emotional availability, there are moments where I was like, "Oh wow, this is interesting," but to what end? I did not know what story we were following.
[00:12:42] Paul Scheer: This is also Robin Williams in, like, prime melancholy mode, right?
[00:12:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:12:45] Paul Scheer: Because he makes it other-
[00:12:46] June Diane Raphael: I don't like it ... I don't like it, he- I don't know. It doesn't, doesn't sit well with me. I don't, I don't like that version of Robin.
[00:12:50] Paul Scheer: He always looks like he's on the verge of tears, and I, and I, and I-
[00:12:53] June Diane Raphael: It makes me feel weird.
[00:12:55] Paul Scheer: I guess the thing I'm also saying, and this is the thing that bummed me out about this movie the most, I get, yes, you wanna make a metaphor for kids that are sick and kids that are different. I love that idea in theory, and that should be more of a kids movie. I think this is a movie for adults, but the one way that he appeals to the kids, the way that he is kind of brought into the kids has nothing to do with his personality.
[00:13:15] It only-
[00:13:16] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:13:16] Paul Scheer: ... has to do with his differences.
[00:13:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:13:18] Paul Scheer: Oh, you're tall, so you're a good basketball player. Oh, you can go buy Penthouses. Like-
[00:13:21] June Diane Raphael: That's exactly right.
[00:13:22] Paul Scheer: ... he has nothing to offer them that is of his own personality.
[00:13:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:13:26] Paul Scheer: So the movie is positing-
[00:13:28] June Diane Raphael: That's exactly right.
[00:13:28] Paul Scheer: ... like, accept him for who he is. It's like, we, no, no, we just accept him for-
[00:13:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Who is he?
[00:13:31] Paul Scheer: The, yeah. We don't know. You know? He's-
[00:13:34] Jason Mantzoukas: He's kind of a cipher for what all these other characters are putting into him ...
[00:13:39] June Diane Raphael: I guess the closest we get to who he is is in the tree house when he's farting and eating that stuff and having a good time. Like, I guess-
[00:13:49] Paul Scheer: When he was doing that with Bill Cosby?
[00:13:50] June Diane Raphael: He-
[00:13:51] Jason Mantzoukas: We gotta-
[00:13:52] June Diane Raphael: Oh, God.
[00:13:52] Jason Mantzoukas: ... we gotta talk about-
[00:13:53] June Diane Raphael: When Bill Cosby-
[00:13:54] Jason Mantzoukas: We gotta talk about the Cos.
[00:13:56] June Diane Raphael: When Bill Cosby in the tree house pokes his head through- through the tree house hole to come on up, I screamed.
[00:14:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:14:05] June Diane Raphael: It was genuinely... It's so strange now to see him on screen. It's actually terrifying.
[00:14:11] Paul Scheer: I found him to be a terrifying influence. Bill Cosby does play his tutor in this film, and he seems to be very checked out of what is going on because whenever they hit a problem, he's like, "Send him back to school, send him back to school." Like, he's always trying to send him back to school. He, he seems over it.
[00:14:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, I think he wants to socialize him.
[00:14:27] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:14:27] Jason Mantzoukas: What was strange is that Bill Cosby also introduces Jack as the valedictorian of the high school.
[00:14:35] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:14:35] June Diane Raphael: Has he got a job there?
[00:14:37] Jason Mantzoukas: So, so has Cosby been working for the school system this entire time?
[00:14:42] Paul Scheer: I do want to bring up a-
[00:14:44] June Diane Raphael: Maybe it's just, like, some extra cash on the side. I don't know.
[00:14:47] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I can't express to you how uncomfortable it felt to see Bill Cosby in all these scenes with kids.
[00:14:55] Paul Scheer: Oh. It was.
[00:14:56] June Diane Raphael: I, I- It was ...
[00:14:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Even though I know those are not his crimes, it's still-
[00:14:59] Paul Scheer: No, but it's still, you don't want him in a tree house.
[00:15:00] June Diane Raphael: No, but it's, I didn't, you don't want him around them.
[00:15:03] Jason Mantzoukas: I just didn't like it.
[00:15:04] June Diane Raphael: It was very... Oh, yeah, because we don't want him around them.
[00:15:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:15:07] June Diane Raphael: It was very, very distressing.
[00:15:09] Paul Scheer: I, I am gonna show you something because the movie, uh, basically takes place in this one year of school, right?
[00:15:17] That's the m- that, like, for all intents and purposes, it's, there's bookends where he's born and then this, this kind of reunion, and now on the screen it says seven years later, right? So seven years later they're graduating. I imagine they're graduating from high school at this point, right? Now, this is what shocked me, and I'm just gonna show you this, uh, 'cause I, I, I didn't think you would believe it if I, I didn't.
[00:15:42] Um, when they are panning around the graduation ceremony, there is this sign that says seven years later. Which I was like, wait, did someone get the wrong note? Like-
[00:15:54] June Diane Raphael: That's funny.
[00:15:54] Paul Scheer: ... this should be like-
[00:15:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.
[00:15:55] Paul Scheer: ... high school graduation, not a banner that says Seven years later ...
[00:15:59] June Diane Raphael: Seven years later.
[00:16:01] Jason Mantzoukas: I wonder if-
[00:16:02] Paul Scheer: Like, to what end is it seven years later?
[00:16:04] Jason Mantzoukas: My guess is Coppola, Coppola thought he was gonna practically, like you'd pan through, you'd see this, and it would tell you that it was seven years later.
[00:16:11] Paul Scheer: Oh.
[00:16:12] Jason Mantzoukas: And so they maybe wouldn't use a chyron on screen or something.
[00:16:15] Paul Scheer: But whoa, to make a banner that says seven years-
[00:16:20] Jason Mantzoukas: That, this is so weird. I was like- I hope it's, I hope it's what you said. I hope props made this, and he was like, "Why would I want this? Why would I want something that says-"
[00:16:28] Paul Scheer: No, that's a, that's a title.
[00:16:29] Jason Mantzoukas: ... it's in the script. It's in the script. It says seven years later, but-
[00:16:32] Paul Scheer: But you know what? I will say that, you know, talking about maybe an interesting shot technique, Francis Ford Coppola does, uh, give us for the first time the uterus cam.
[00:16:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:16:41] Paul Scheer: Because we get the POV of Robin Williams coming out of the birth canal, which was a crazy and very unnecessary shot.
[00:16:50] June Diane Raphael: I didn't catch that.
[00:16:50] Paul Scheer: Why did we need to see the POV of the baby coming out of Diane Lane?
[00:16:55] June Diane Raphael: Well, it's very interesting because the, the movie starts on Halloween, and there is something, and this is not just because of his dis- there's something very terrifying about this movie.
[00:17:06] Paul Scheer: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:06] June Diane Raphael: There's something very spooky and ghoulish, and when they started on that Congo line, I thought, "Uh, I don't know about, I don't know about this." And then it just continued and continued, and then at the very end, he's gonna die, so we know-
[00:17:24] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:17:25] June Diane Raphael: ... Like that's h- but also, here's the thing about Robin Williams I found so strange He's old and he says like, he's old as hell at that last shot, and he says like, "You know, gotta live every moment to the fullest. Life is short." Makes a joke about his own lifespan. You see his grays, and then he runs-
[00:17:46] Paul Scheer: Comical grays.
[00:17:46] June Diane Raphael: Yes, and then he runs to that convertible-
[00:17:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[00:17:50] June Diane Raphael: ... and jumps up and hops in the back with such a pep in his step. I was like, "What's ha-
[00:17:57] Paul Scheer: Yeah that is where the movie, like they need a happy ending here because it is, it's kind of this moment where it's like make every moment count. But then he looks so fine. He's shaky hands, you know, wearing those, and again, dressed like a clown still. Like, he is dressed in bright red, like I don't even... A cl- They're clown shoes. Like, that's how we introduce Jack at the end of the movie. He is in, he is fully transformed into clown mode here.
[00:18:23] June Diane Raphael: They were sequin clown shoes.
[00:18:25] Jason Mantzoukas: For example, it really is, like the movie is all broad strokes.
[00:18:29] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:18:29] Jason Mantzoukas: We don't know any of the interiority of Jack's life or mind at all. We don't know what he wants. Does Jack wanna go to school, college meaning? Does he, like what lies ahead for Jack? Is it just are we celebrating-
[00:18:42] June Diane Raphael: Well, I don't know because he never wrote that essay.
[00:18:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Just a... That's what I mean. Did he, are we just celebrating that he got this far? You know, like I don't, I don't-
[00:18:47] Paul Scheer: That he lived.
[00:18:48] Jason Mantzoukas: That he lived? Like, what is the movie's story? Like, how would... Like, it's just about ri- It, it's about the gimmick almost, about like-
[00:18:57] Paul Scheer: Well, I think the big, the big story is wouldn't it be funny to have a hairy man with a bunch of kids? Because that's really the thing that they keep on getting-
[00:19:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Act, getting to act like a kid again. I don't think it's funny at all. Don't you wanna be a kid ag- Now, hey, now that we're middle-aged, this is how they pitched it. Hey, now that we're all middle-aged, remember what it was like to be a kid, young and on the playground playing basketball, doo-wop music playing off of every corner out of every transistor radio? Let's do that, but for the '90s, and guess what? Coppola's in. As long as we put a, a representation of his wine bottles in the movie- ... he's in.
[00:19:35] Paul Scheer: All I'm gonna say is, and, and, and, and God bless these great creators and, and, and I give them all their props, they don't seem like parents who have spent much time with their children. Because again, I think that these broad strokes is why the movie feels weird. It's like it doesn't feel like a 10-year-old, it doesn't feel like these issues that are actually going on. I mean, there is a moment in this movie with Diane Lane and her husband, and by the way, by the way, Diane Lane, aces. Love Diane Lane.
[00:19:58] Um, where she's like, "I'm worried about him. I feel bad about him," and the husband is trying to fuck her, and it is so uncomfortable.
[00:20:06] June Diane Raphael: And their son's special little box.
[00:20:10] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:20:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:20:10] June Diane Raphael: I thought that was so weird.
[00:20:11] Paul Scheer: It was so weird. It's like she's upset, and you're just trying to like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay." And he's like, "Let's have another kid." I'm like, and I also get, I get all these elements, but it just came in such waves that made me uncomfortable.
[00:20:24] Jason Mantzoukas: And such brief moments.
[00:20:26] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:20:26] Jason Mantzoukas: And again, like you're really checking in, you're doing the bare minimum to check in on these parents and what their lives might be like. So it's like so late into the movie when you find out like, oh, they are capable of having another child.
[00:20:39] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:20:39] Jason Mantzoukas: They're just, they're just afraid of that or whatever. And that's-
[00:20:42] June Diane Raphael: And-
[00:20:43] Jason Mantzoukas: That's interesting. That could be explored.
[00:20:44] June Diane Raphael: Very interesting.
[00:20:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Nope, not at all.
[00:20:45] June Diane Raphael: Very interesting, especially now that we know, which we don't find out till later, like he's gonna die in a few years.
[00:20:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:52] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:53] Jason Mantzoukas: And they- And, and they also don- the movie's not about that I thought for sure the movie was going to be about-
[00:20:58] Paul Scheer: Live your life.
[00:20:59] Jason Mantzoukas: The, uh, that at the end of the movie would be the end of his life.
[00:21:02] June Diane Raphael: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:02] Jason Mantzoukas: And that that would be the, the, the movie's thesis would be an entire life lived in a child's, you know, uh, in, in, in-
[00:21:10] Paul Scheer: Nope.
[00:21:10] June Diane Raphael: But this is, this what's, this is what's so weird, 'cause they spend so much time, I think, letting Robin Williams do Robin Williams-
[00:21:17] Jason Mantzoukas: That, I agree.
[00:21:17] June Diane Raphael: That we don't get to investigate any of this other stuff. I mean, here's again, this issue I had. When he walks into that tree house for the first time, now, that tree house is very large.
[00:21:27] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:21:27] June Diane Raphael: Okay? It's very, very large.
[00:21:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Sure.
[00:21:29] June Diane Raphael: He could, as an adult man, I think, stand up in there.
[00:21:32] Jason Mantzoukas: So could Bill Cosby.
[00:21:33] June Diane Raphael: So could Bill Cosby. And Bill, and Bill-
[00:21:36] Paul Scheer: But once Bill Cosby comes in and goes crashing to the ground-
[00:21:36] June Diane Raphael: But there is so much room in there when Robin Williams arrives.
[00:21:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:21:40] June Diane Raphael: He falls over everything, knocks into everything, bumping and... I'm like, but wait, does, is this his first time walking? Like they're playing something that isn't there.
[00:21:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, but they, I feel like this is of that era. This is like, this is him. This is if Jim Carrey were in this part, this would be what he would be doing. Like, the outsized physical performance is just v- we are, we are drowning in these kind of performances inside the mid, early to mid-'90s. You know what I mean?
[00:22:14] Paul Scheer: He's playing the-
[00:22:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Mike Myers ...
[00:22:16] Paul Scheer: He's playing the physicality of a body that he doesn't have, where that works in Big-
[00:22:21] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Paul Scheer: ... because he's a little kid who now is big, so he doesn't understand how his body works. But Robin Williams is a big child who has always been big.
[00:22:29] June Diane Raphael: Who has grown into his body.
[00:22:30] Paul Scheer: Yes. And, and would understand how his body works. Now, you s-
[00:22:33] June Diane Raphael: I think so.
[00:22:34] Paul Scheer: Well, would have to. I mean, he's al- like-
[00:22:36] June Diane Raphael: He doesn't seem to know where it begins and ends.
[00:22:40] Paul Scheer: Right, but like as a 10-year-old- he has a mind of a 10-year-old, but he has the body of a 40-year-old, so his body would be the normal thing to him, in my mind. Like, that's the one thing he has.
[00:22:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, it's also, like you don't, you don't meet a kid who's like, you know, 10 years old, but inexplicably is just very, very tall.
[00:22:54] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:22:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Sometimes you meet a, you know, a, a kid who's just much taller than their age, and y- you, the kid isn't like, "I should be small." "I, I might, I think of myself as a tiny little guy." No. Like, you know, you feel-
[00:23:07] June Diane Raphael: You know where you b- you know what kind of space you take up in the world.
[00:23:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Correct.
[00:23:12] June Diane Raphael: And that's what was just so very strange about these choices.
[00:23:17] Paul Scheer: I blame the parents, and I'm gonna tell you- ... the most, the most shocking look that we got of these parents was the sequence when Diane Lane is scrapbooking with bubbles On his first day of school, I'm like, "This is an unsafe house for a child."
[00:23:33] Something has happened here that is weird. Like, I didn't like how fanciful that was. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know. I think that she wanted not... You know, she wanted to keep him there, and she had some weird stuff. She's playing robot with him. Like, I felt like they took away her best friend because her husband wasn't actually there for her, and I wanted to examine that.
[00:23:52] Jason Mantzoukas: I think that was, uh, absolutely in there, is how much she did not want to let him go.
[00:23:58] June Diane Raphael: His photograph in the office.
[00:23:59] Jason Mantzoukas: You know? Yeah. And, uh, she didn't wanna let him go. She wanted to keep him home, all that stuff. Again, barely examined, you know? Um-
[00:24:06] Paul Scheer: Do, do you, do you think-
[00:24:07] Jason Mantzoukas: And the movie's two hours long.
[00:24:09] Paul Scheer: Oh, it's so long.
[00:24:12] June Diane Raphael: It was so long.
[00:24:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, everybody... It just felt like the same scene j- jumbled up and st- set someplace else, you know? It felt so similar every time.
[00:24:20] Paul Scheer: Oh, I mean, I, the other thing I wanna just pull out from a parent's point of view, and again, just to point out that these people involved with this movie had no idea of how children work.
[00:24:29] Uh, the sleepover scene, I don't know if June, if you had any problems with this. A kid comes over, "Can he sleep over right now?" And she's like, "Okay." And then Robin Williams just runs out of the house and is gone for a sleepover.
[00:24:42] June Diane Raphael: Doesn't seem like she knew where he was even going. I mean, that's what's so strange-
[00:24:45] Paul Scheer: Didn't have a bag. Didn't have anything.
[00:24:46] June Diane Raphael: ... about what's going on in this town even. It's, I found it very odd that no one at school just asks him, like, "Hey, why, why do you have the body of an adult?"
[00:24:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:24:55] June Diane Raphael: Like, just some basic questions. Like, no parent-
[00:24:57] Paul Scheer: Well, wouldn't everybody in the town know?
[00:24:58] June Diane Raphael: I would think so. No parent seems to know like, "Oh, he's, there, there's a kid who's started school, and, and guess what?
[00:25:07] Like, he's, he looks like an adult."
[00:25:09] Paul Scheer: Towns talk. These townies would be talking all about that hairy man hanging out with their kids. Well, there- We saw no parents protesting it. If it was like- It should've been like that Norman Rockwell painting.
[00:25:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, if it was like The Legend of Billie Jean, um, um, a movie that we all, uh-
[00:25:24] Paul Scheer: Loved.
[00:25:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Just really loved recently, um-
[00:25:26] Paul Scheer: Me maybe more than you two ...
[00:25:28] Jason Mantzoukas: The movie would strip out so many of the adults' points of view. Like, this movie would be more successful if you really were following Jack and his kid friends. Like, for example, um, I can't remember his buddy's-
[00:25:42] June Diane Raphael: Louie, John-John ...
[00:25:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Who's, who's Fran Drescher's son?
[00:25:45] June Diane Raphael: Louie.
[00:25:45] Paul Scheer: Louie.
[00:25:45] Jason Mantzoukas: So Louie, Louie is like, to, to, to, to Jack, "Hey, you gotta pretend to be the principal to my mom so that I don't get in trouble." Okay, that then happens, but we never f- see the repercussions of that. Like, w- I feel like-
[00:25:58] June Diane Raphael: There are none, Jason.
[00:25:59] Jason Mantzoukas: ... the movie, that's what I mean. The movie should be all about, like, this house of cards that these kids are building because they technically have an adult in their presence.
[00:26:07] Paul Scheer: Yes. That's, that's the fun.
[00:26:07] Jason Mantzoukas: And then that's the whole thing-
[00:26:08] Paul Scheer: That's the milk money movie, right?
[00:26:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Exactly, and that's just not present at all because the movie can't decide, is this m- a movie that adults are meant to be going like, "Aw," or is this a movie where kids are like, "Oh, yeah, if I, if my teacher was J.Lo, I would wanna be a gynecologist as well"?
[00:26:25] Paul Scheer: Oh, when he's, when that kid said that- When that kid said-
[00:26:28] June Diane Raphael: There are some goofy kids though.
[00:26:28] Paul Scheer: ... "I wanna be a gynecologist because of you," I was like, first of all-
[00:26:32] June Diane Raphael: Now listen.
[00:26:32] Paul Scheer: ... ugh, ugh.
[00:26:32] June Diane Raphael: I know Paul talked about his parents' point of view, but this is mine. I, I, and I find this in a lot of movies at this, this, uh, time, where the way that they write young boys A 10-year-old boy is so fucking disgusting.
[00:26:48] Paul Scheer: Disgusting.
[00:26:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, yeah, because it's, like, 40-year-old men.
[00:26:51] June Diane Raphael: It's so gross. When they said ... They're looking at that penthouse thing. He goes, "Do you think our moms look like this?"
[00:26:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:26:56] June Diane Raphael: What, what is happening?
[00:26:57] Paul Scheer: No one is-
[00:26:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:26:58] Paul Scheer: No one is saying that.
[00:26:59] June Diane Raphael: Disgusting.
[00:26:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, adult men are.
[00:27:01] June Diane Raphael: Adult men are.
[00:27:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Adult men. These are the, these are the thoughts of adult men.
[00:27:04] June Diane Raphael: Adult men.
[00:27:05] Paul Scheer: But, I mean, it's also, like, being a gynecologist is such a, like, I don't think it's a sexual thing at all. It's like, "Oh, yeah, I get to look at women's vagi-" Like, it's like, make a boob joke, like, make it, like, a simple joke, but, like, it seems so much more aggressive. Like, it seems like you're gonna torture these women-
[00:27:23] June Diane Raphael: Oh, it's horrible.
[00:27:24] Paul Scheer: By being a gynecologist.
[00:27:25] June Diane Raphael: Here's the thing about, the one question I have about JLo. Now, I thought it was a lovely performance. Loved her.
[00:27:30] Paul Scheer: Everyone is great in this movie.
[00:27:31] June Diane Raphael: But ... Yes. Well, but. Uh. Yes, but when she is asked out on a date by Robin Williams to go to the dance, I, I did, there was something about that that was heartbreaking, I agree, Jason.
[00:27:44] Although every sort of moment they went for with heart t- just made me literally have to, like-
[00:27:50] Paul Scheer: Sick.
[00:27:50] June Diane Raphael: ... close my eyes and hold myself. Yeah. But she does seem to be really struggling to give him that answer. Did anyone else notice that?
[00:27:59] Paul Scheer: Well, 'cause she's ... yes, I did. When I-
[00:28:00] June Diane Raphael: Why is she conflicted on any level?
[00:28:02] Paul Scheer: Because I think, I think that she wa-
[00:28:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, whoa.
[00:28:04] Paul Scheer: ... I think that what she's trying to do ... And, and here's the thing. I also don't think that JLo's a good teacher, but I'm gonna get back to that in a moment. I think she understands here is a very sick boy who is looking at her as someone that he can actually dance with, and he doesn't even understand, like, oh, her size to him, he knows she's an adult, but in a weird way he can be attracted to her because he is that big. Like, I think there's a few things at play, and I think she's trying to let him down easy. But the way it reads is that she's considering it.
[00:28:35] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:28:35] Jason Mantzoukas: No, I agree.
[00:28:36] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:28:36] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree. 'Cause I felt like, I felt like the movie was trying to thread the needle unsuccessfully of I'm sure every year a little boy has a crush on her-
[00:28:45] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:28:45] Jason Mantzoukas: And asks her to the dance, and she lets him down. But he hits her with, "It would o- it would look weird if I went with a little girl. It would only look normal if I went with you."
[00:28:56] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah.
[00:28:57] Jason Mantzoukas: And she doesn't know what to do with-
[00:28:59] Paul Scheer: She's stuck.
[00:29:00] Jason Mantzoukas: ... she sees the logic in h- what he's saying, so this is a new version of an old problem.
[00:29:05] June Diane Raphael: Well, okay.
[00:29:06] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I ag- I agree. It does look like she's tempted.
[00:29:09] June Diane Raphael: Thread real ... Oh, it's like-
[00:29:11] Paul Scheer: Right. Describing that moment, I mean, look, I don't know how you play that moment-
[00:29:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, and I thought this was gonna be, I thought she was, or Fran Drescher, it turns out it's Fran Drescher, were going to be like the Elizabeth Perkins in Big analog.
[00:29:21] You know what I mean? Like- Yeah ... that he's gonna somehow find his way into having, um, uh, uh, awkward, uh, uh, sexual s- scenarios. You know? But, um, but yeah. Anyway.
[00:29:33] Paul Scheer: Well, can I ask this question?
[00:29:33] June Diane Raphael: Well, it was, it, it came off real, real strange.
[00:29:37] Paul Scheer: If we are talking about awkward sexual scenarios, here's my question for both of you: Was Michael McKean trying to fuck him?
[00:29:45] June Diane Raphael: I don't think so.
[00:29:46] Jason Mantzoukas: No, I think he was trying to fuck Fran Drescher, wasn't he?
[00:29:49] Paul Scheer: Michael McKean, I thought in that bar is like, I'm like, I know he's talking about not being able to get it up with a woman, and-
[00:29:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[00:29:55] Paul Scheer: ... right, but I, I felt an energy from him like-
[00:29:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Maybe ...
[00:29:59] Paul Scheer: Maybe he's gay too. Like, I don't know. Like, I, there was something-
[00:30:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, too? Who else is?
[00:30:04] Paul Scheer: Oh, I mean, like maybe his other problem, like he couldn't get it up and, and at the same time-
[00:30:13] Jason Mantzoukas: And he's- Oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh.
[00:30:14] Paul Scheer: ... like, may, like it may have not his only problem. I
[00:30:14] Jason Mantzoukas: thought you were including-
[00:30:14] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah. No, no ...
[00:30:14] Jason Mantzoukas: I thought you were including Jack in that, right?
[00:30:14] Paul Scheer: No, no, no.
[00:30:14] Jason Mantzoukas: I was like, "Whoa, Jack's gay?"
[00:30:16] Paul Scheer: But I do think that there was something in the way that he kind of approached, the way the shirt was tucked in a little bit too tight and it was a little bit too small.
[00:30:23] June Diane Raphael: And toupee?
[00:30:24] Paul Scheer: Yeah, like I don't know that he was-
[00:30:27] June Diane Raphael: I don't know, Paul.
[00:30:28] Jason Mantzoukas: This also reeked to me of middle-aged men writing, writing this script of just like, "I don't know, man, my dick doesn't work anymore and all my hair fell out." You know? Like, everybody is just, and nobody is talking like people talk. They're talking like characters talk. Everybody's talking in exposition, just telling you the th- their inmo- innermost thoughts. Everybody in the movie is telling you their innermost thoughts except the stars of the movie.
[00:30:55] Paul Scheer: I, it's so hard.
[00:30:55] Jason Mantzoukas: They remain enigmas.
[00:30:57] June Diane Raphael: We have no idea how, and by the way, Paul, you said, "Oh, J.Lo's looking at him and thinking he's a very sick boy." I don't, I didn't know he was a very sick boy.
[00:31:08] Paul Scheer: How about when he fell down the stairs and started having a heart attack?
[00:31:12] June Diane Raphael: Well, right after that, then it turns out he's a very sick boy. But before that, I, all I know is he's got some sort of a thing that's made him very, very large and very matured very early. But-
[00:31:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Ugh ...
[00:31:24] June Diane Raphael: I'm not looking at, I wasn't until then r- thinking like, "Oh, he's gonna die in seven years."
[00:31:29] Jason Mantzoukas: But like, but s- that's the kind of st- and again, that's the movie's failing because where the, where, like, where it really hits is moments like, "What do I wanna be when I grow up... dot, dot, dot, alive."
[00:31:41] Paul Scheer: Oof.
[00:31:41] Jason Mantzoukas: I was like, "Fuck." That's the m- that's, this movie has a t- a clock on it, which is his mortality, that it will not engage with. Like, the movie should be about what-
[00:31:53] Paul Scheer: Until it wants to.
[00:31:54] Jason Mantzoukas: What, yes, what fleeting time we have as evidenced by this magical realism kind of story we're telling to show you the totality of life told in such a, a brief moment, but then allow us to see that. But it barely acknowledges. It so doesn't wanna be about his impending death.
[00:32:12] June Diane Raphael: Can I ask a question, Jason? That's, what you're g- what you're talking about is what I think Bill Cosby's getting at during his speech where he sort of lets him go as a student.
[00:32:24] Paul Scheer: Finally, June getting behind Bill Cosby. Go ahead.
[00:32:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:32:26] June Diane Raphael: But actually, when he says, you know, "I just wanna be normal," he says, "You can't be normal. You're not normal. You're extraordinary, and you're a shooting star," and this and that. If I'm gonna be so for real right now, aside from this thing that's happened to him, he doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.
[00:32:51] Paul Scheer: That's exactly right. He doesn't offer anything-
[00:32:56] June Diane Raphael: Is that okay to say?
[00:32:56] Paul Scheer: ... but his size.
[00:32:56] June Diane Raphael: I don't think he's a shooting star.
[00:32:58] Paul Scheer: No, he doesn't offer anything but his size. He doesn't come into the class. He's a liar. He doesn't, he doesn't offer anything.
[00:33:04] Jason Mantzoukas: He's a fucking liar? Wait a minute. So the only way that Jack has value in both of your minds is if he is also extraordinary at something else.
[00:33:15] June Diane Raphael: Every child is extraordinary.
[00:33:16] Jason Mantzoukas: If he was a virtuoso-
[00:33:17] June Diane Raphael: When, when, but that's what I didn't agree with Bill Cosby when he said-
[00:33:19] Paul Scheer: Show me some personality trait.
[00:33:20] June Diane Raphael: But, but like-
[00:33:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:33:21] June Diane Raphael: ... he's a shooting star like every one of those-
[00:33:24] Paul Scheer: Give me something.
[00:33:24] June Diane Raphael: Kids is a shooting star.
[00:33:25] Paul Scheer: Give me something. All I know about this kid is he likes-
[00:33:28] June Diane Raphael: Okay, we're all nobody's normal. Everybody's extraordinary.
[00:33:28] Paul Scheer: ... he likes red gummy bears.
[00:33:29] June Diane Raphael: But there's nothing about-
[00:33:30] Paul Scheer: That's the only thing.
[00:33:31] June Diane Raphael: ... him that's more or less extraordinary than any other child there.
[00:33:38] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, the only other thing is that he is Robin Williams.
[00:33:41] Paul Scheer: Right. Right. And, and he, and, and by the way, it's a, it's a Robin Williams movie that takes away all of Robin Williams' powers, 'cause we first meet him and he's like, "Attention, attention, or beep, boop, boop, boop."
[00:33:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Ugh.
[00:33:51] Paul Scheer: He's doing all the voices. Now, here's the world that I pitch, right? A boy who has grown fast like this-
[00:33:57] June Diane Raphael: Is he smart?
[00:33:58] Paul Scheer: Well, no, here, my pitch is this: the only thing he had is his imagination, and in 1996 what he does-
[00:34:05] June Diane Raphael: Yes, Paul.
[00:34:05] Paul Scheer: ... Is he comes into the world-
[00:34:06] June Diane Raphael: Yes, Paul.
[00:34:06] Paul Scheer: ... And opens up these other boys', like, life by embracing their creative energy and all this other stuff, but he doesn't bring anything to the table.
[00:34:17] June Diane Raphael: I'd like to add to that. What this story should've been about is these boys should've been going through puberty. These boys should've been going through their own kind of body horror, right?
[00:34:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:27] June Diane Raphael: And he sh- as an adult-
[00:34:28] Paul Scheer: Have done it.
[00:34:29] June Diane Raphael: ... fully beyond that, already did it, should be able to offer them some lessons about, like, mind over body, about enjoying the moment, about, like- Enjoying your bo- whatever it is.
[00:34:46] Paul Scheer: He should have shaved one of the kids the first time.
[00:34:48] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:34:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:34:49] Paul Scheer: Because by this movie's-
[00:34:50] Jason Mantzoukas: 'Cause he now knows.
[00:34:50] Paul Scheer: ... by this movie's calculations-
[00:34:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:34:51] Paul Scheer: ... he's been shaving for a long time, right? Because-
[00:34:54] June Diane Raphael: Right, but why, instead of giving them the penthouse, why wasn't he saying to them, "Guys, you got a couple years left to be kids."
[00:35:04] Paul Scheer: Well, he hasn't, he hasn't had the knowledge, babe.
[00:35:06] June Diane Raphael: Be kids.
[00:35:06] Paul Scheer: He hasn't had the knowledge.
[00:35:07] Jason Mantzoukas: We don't, but that's, yeah, the movie isn't interrogating that.
[00:35:10] June Diane Raphael: I know.
[00:35:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Nor, nor is it i- in, interested really in how he is helping his parents relate to him as a child. 'Cause there is also something fascinatingly bizarre going on for Diane Lane and what's his name? Um, who's I know her hus-
[00:35:27] Paul Scheer: The, her husband, yeah.
[00:35:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Her husband, who I can't remember that actor's name, but they are raising now a 10-year-old who is older than they are, or, or appears rather older than they are, and that is also something that would, I think, be very interesting and very strange.
[00:35:42] June Diane Raphael: Let's see them go out to dinner and assume that's her husband.
[00:35:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Exactly.
[00:35:47] June Diane Raphael: Let's see it all.
[00:35:47] Paul Scheer: Wait, that's a creepier scenario.
[00:35:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Let's see a lived life.
[00:35:50] Paul Scheer: That's a creep-
[00:35:50] Jason Mantzoukas: It is.
[00:35:50] Paul Scheer: That, my mom did that to me one time.
[00:35:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait a minute.
[00:35:53] Paul Scheer: She, uh, we were checking into a hotel, and she was like, "Isn't it funny? You could play, pretend to be my husband." I was like, "No, I don't wanna do that at all."
[00:36:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, it was, it, it didn't come from the person mistaking it. It came from your mom?
[00:36:06] Paul Scheer: Yeah, 'Cause I think that she thought, like, the, the hotel clerk said, "Oh, is that your wife?"
[00:36:10] June Diane Raphael: Like, that would be a huge red flag.
[00:36:10] Paul Scheer: And I said, "No."
[00:36:12] Jason Mantzoukas: And she didn't correct them?
[00:36:14] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:36:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, no.
[00:36:16] Paul Scheer: It's a really messed up, really messed up moment.
[00:36:22] June Diane Raphael: Why was he wearing an oxygen mask at one point?
[00:36:25] Paul Scheer: Because I think bad heart.
[00:36:26] Jason Mantzoukas: I think just to signify that it's getting worse.
[00:36:28] Paul Scheer: Right, because it's like he-
[00:36:29] June Diane Raphael: That just aging is getting worse?
[00:36:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:36:31] June Diane Raphael: 'Cause at that point, only days had gone by, so I'm like, what-
[00:36:34] Paul Scheer: He's still only 40.
[00:36:35] June Diane Raphael: I, I, yeah. I, I-
[00:36:36] Paul Scheer: He's, he's 40 years old with a bad heart. And by the way, we're really being generous with the 40 there, uh, I think with.
[00:36:41] June Diane Raphael: Yes, we are. Yes, we are. I, I really- Here's what would've been funny ... yeah ... him telling his parents, like, "You gotta watch your cholesterol," or like-
[00:36:52] Paul Scheer: But he doesn't have any of that knowledge.
[00:36:53] June Diane Raphael: "Let's watch your blood pressure." Well, he should because he is living in that body.
[00:36:58] Jason Mantzoukas: I would've loved for the events of the movie to have necessitated a perhaps earlier than necessary, um, birds and the bees talk. You know what I mean?
[00:37:08] Paul Scheer: Oh, that's fun.
[00:37:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Wouldn't that, wouldn't w- having a, a grown-looking man as a son, wouldn't you have to give him a talk maybe at 9 or 10 versus, you know-
[00:37:19] Paul Scheer: Everything about it is creepy, though. Everything-
[00:37:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:37:21] Paul Scheer: ... that we're describing-
[00:37:22] Jason Mantzoukas: It is.
[00:37:22] Paul Scheer: ... is creepy-
[00:37:23] June Diane Raphael: It's horrible.
[00:37:23] Paul Scheer: ... 'cause you just have to go like, that's a 10-year-old, that's a 10-year-old, and yes, he's got this body, and that's why, like, when-
[00:37:28] June Diane Raphael: It's horrible.
[00:37:28] Paul Scheer: ... Fran Drescher makes out with him, it's like, ooh, I don't-
[00:37:31] June Diane Raphael: I hate it.
[00:37:31] Paul Scheer: There's no f- there's no fun here. I think there's no-
[00:37:33] June Diane Raphael: Keep your tongue back in your mouth, sweetie.
[00:37:34] Paul Scheer: Ooh.
[00:37:34] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree. It doesn't work at all, and it, like, the movie can't figure it out. The movie can't establish its tone or what it, what its rules are.
[00:37:43] Paul Scheer: It's not a comedy.
[00:37:45] Jason Mantzoukas: And, and no, it's not a comedy.
[00:37:47] Paul Scheer: It's a horror. It's a body horror.
[00:37:47] June Diane Raphael: Oh, heavens no.
[00:37:48] Jason Mantzoukas: And without that release, without that valve of comedy moments, jokes to, to l- to, to, uh, alleviate, uh, or lubricate some of the discomfort, the movie just sits in awkwardness and strangeness a lot.
[00:38:02] June Diane Raphael: Over and over and over.
[00:38:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:38:03] June Diane Raphael: Now, here, my biggest, my biggest concern was during the final credit sequence when they show each character we've come to know and not love, and then put the actor's name, put the actor's name under it.
[00:38:17] Okay, so we're seeing Louis. We're seeing John John. We're seeing Diane Lane credited as simply Mom, and then we're seeing the dad. Okay. But then we see, then it's time for Jack. Well- They put up the baby photo of him and say Jack-
[00:38:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Really?
[00:38:36] June Diane Raphael: ... Robin Williams. The infant-
[00:38:37] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:38:37] June Diane Raphael: Photo.
[00:38:38] Paul Scheer: Which is not Robin Williams. Like, technically that's not Robin Williams as a baby, so.
[00:38:45] Jason Mantzoukas: So you think this is something that the, the union should get involved? SAG should get involved in this?
[00:38:51] Paul Scheer: Well, I mean, I, I'm just saying that, like, if we're doing-
[00:38:51] June Diane Raphael: This is how Fran got involved with, like-
[00:38:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Is this what this is what activated Fran's pol- politics? Union politics?
[00:38:57] Paul Scheer: All I know is that one time they spelled Rob Huebel's name the wrong way in the credits, and he got a lot of money from Paramount. Yes. Uh, so I just-
[00:39:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:39:05] Paul Scheer: ... feel like you can't put up another-
[00:39:07] June Diane Raphael: Rob Hubel.
[00:39:07] Paul Scheer: Rob... And you can't put up another c- uh, character and say that... Well, whatever.
[00:39:11] June Diane Raphael: But I didn't even know, but I guess it's like- I just wanted to understand what are we saying with this?
[00:39:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:39:17] June Diane Raphael: That this, this is the moment where we're all walking away with these not beloved characters, and, but we're now focused on the baby?
[00:39:25] Jason Mantzoukas: I, yeah. A- a- and I think that really gets at what I feel like the studio's entire interest in the movie is, what if Robin Williams was a 10-year-old?
[00:39:36] Paul Scheer: Well, that's the movie.
[00:39:37] June Diane Raphael: Man, that was good enough for them.
[00:39:38] Paul Scheer: That, yeah.
[00:39:38] Jason Mantzoukas: What if Adam Sandler went back to elementary school?
[00:39:41] June Diane Raphael: Mm.
[00:39:41] Jason Mantzoukas: What if Jim Carrey couldn't lie?
[00:39:43] Paul Scheer: It's a tricky thing-
[00:39:44] Jason Mantzoukas: That's what these whole era is.
[00:39:45] Paul Scheer: ... Because it's not fun. Yeah. It's just not fun, and it's not fun to see a, a man be a child. It's just not fun. I don't know. Like, it's.
[00:39:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Without a goal.
[00:39:56] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:39:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Without any... All he wants to... And I, again, I, you know, like, there were moments that genuinely got me. I did cry in this movie a couple of times. Um-
[00:40:04] June Diane Raphael: A couple of times, Jason?
[00:40:05] Jason Mantzoukas: A couple of times. A couple of times. Yes, a couple of times. Uh, it got me when he- It got me when he said, "What do I wanna be when I grow up? Alive." Uh, it got me when he said he w- when they take school away from him and he's saying, "I wanna go to school. Don't make me be alone." Oh, that really-
[00:40:22] Paul Scheer: Well, Jason-
[00:40:22] Jason Mantzoukas: That rocked me.
[00:40:22] Paul Scheer: ... listen, now I'm realizing, is this kinda hitting on some of the egg allergy things from your childhood?
[00:40:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Did you- It definitely, it definitely gave me, I definitely felt, uh, I felt seen by the overwhelmingly protective parents fearful of their fragile boy.
[00:40:36] Paul Scheer: And your parents used to read the Financial Times, like the Wall Street Journal-
[00:40:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Correct.
[00:40:39] Paul Scheer: ... like that in a very comical way.
[00:40:40] Jason Mantzoukas: Very big, big, old-timey newspaper way.
[00:40:44] June Diane Raphael: Oh my god. I don't know why, and I felt this way watching Mrs. Doubtfire, too, with the kids, which was an absolute, like, flop of a viewing.
[00:40:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.
[00:40:52] June Diane Raphael: It's just, it was not what you remember, Jason, let me tell you that much.
[00:40:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Because the movie wasn't, or because it just didn't work for-
[00:40:58] June Diane Raphael: The movie's not what you remember.
[00:40:58] Paul Scheer: Oh, oh, oh, okay.
[00:40:59] June Diane Raphael: It's, it-
[00:40:59] Paul Scheer: I thought it was funnier than it was, and my son turned to me at one point and goes, "Is this supposed to be funny?"
[00:41:04] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. And I was like- and I was like, "Oh, no."
[00:41:06] Paul Scheer: Yeah, it is.
[00:41:07] Jason Mantzoukas: No. I feel like it's another one of those sweet family movies.
[00:41:10] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:41:10] Jason Mantzoukas: You know?
[00:41:11] June Diane Raphael: I don't really... Yeah, I have to say, like, when Robin Williams goes sweet, sweet, sweet, I can't-
[00:41:18] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:41:18] June Diane Raphael: Handle it, actually.
[00:41:19] Jason Mantzoukas: No, it's real treacly and-
[00:41:21] June Diane Raphael: Like, I wanna run into traffic ... yeah, it's- It just doesn't sit with me.
[00:41:24] Jason Mantzoukas: No, it's- Um, so- It's not, it's, it gives me the ick, I believe.
[00:41:27] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, I think that's what the kids say, because-
[00:41:29] Jason Mantzoukas: I believe ...
[00:41:30] June Diane Raphael: And, and I had an easier time, honestly, with Cosby being sweet. I, I, I, it just I felt so uncomfortable.
[00:41:36] Paul Scheer: When Cosby is the voice of reason in your movie, like, Cosby is honestly a voice of reason in this film. Like, he's like, "You gotta get him out there. You gotta do this stuff." He's a little bit harsh with it.
[00:41:45] Jason Mantzoukas: We got, we gotta let Cosby back.
[00:41:47] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:41:47] Jason Mantzoukas: We gotta bring-
[00:41:48] June Diane Raphael: Well, why does Cosby go to that tree house?
[00:41:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Why?
[00:41:52] June Diane Raphael: Why is he there?
[00:41:54] Paul Scheer: I-
[00:41:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Especially if we learn, as we do later, that he works for the school administration.
[00:41:58] Paul Scheer: I think that what he's trying to do is check in on him. He wants to make sure that he's socializing.
[00:42:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Great. Check in, walk out.
[00:42:05] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:42:05] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:42:05] Paul Scheer: He does not need to stay there. And by the way, this-
[00:42:07] June Diane Raphael: Certainly doesn't need to eat that whatever that was.
[00:42:11] Paul Scheer: Goop.
[00:42:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Why does he, why does he wanna be part of the kid crew?
[00:42:13] June Diane Raphael: Why?
[00:42:13] Jason Mantzoukas: I understand-
[00:42:14] June Diane Raphael: Why?
[00:42:15] Jason Mantzoukas: I understand why Jack does.
[00:42:17] June Diane Raphael: Why?
[00:42:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Jack's a kid.
[00:42:18] Paul Scheer: No, that-
[00:42:18] June Diane Raphael: But, well, he says it later on. He sort of says, like, "I, you know, this is why I like to work with children so I don't get mired down in all the adult stuff." Weird.
[00:42:26] Jason Mantzoukas: And that's what I feel like the movie's about.
[00:42:28] Paul Scheer: Oh, he is improvising.
[00:42:30] Jason Mantzoukas: It's like, it's a, it's middle-aged men who are like, "I don't want to grow up. I wanna play still."
[00:42:35] Paul Scheer: When he talks about his farts, I was like, "No, man. Get out of here. We don't wanna hear about adult man farts. I wanna hear about kids talking about their farts."
[00:42:43] June Diane Raphael: Disgusting.
[00:42:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:42:43] Paul Scheer: But when yours saying, "I've been known to clear a room," I'm like, "Okay."
[00:42:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Come on.
[00:42:47] Paul Scheer: Come on.
[00:42:47] June Diane Raphael: Disgusting.
[00:42:48] Paul Scheer: And then, you know, but here, he got a little taste of his own medicine though, right? He's been making people drink a bunch of stuff with s- things in it. So finally these kids give him a little something, huh?
[00:42:57] June Diane Raphael: Okay. I will say-
[00:42:58] Paul Scheer: Little, little flip the switch there.
[00:42:59] June Diane Raphael: When that tree house fell down, now we have several, there's several, like, establishing shots of that tree house. It's high up.
[00:43:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, it, and it has-
[00:43:07] Paul Scheer: They're all dead.
[00:43:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, multiple floors.
[00:43:08] June Diane Raphael: Multiple floors.
[00:43:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, they are all RIP.
[00:43:10] June Diane Raphael: They are all either dead or impaled serious- like, never recover-
[00:43:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:15] June Diane Raphael: ... never recovering from that accident.
[00:43:17] Paul Scheer: Yeah, they, they dead.
[00:43:18] Jason Mantzoukas: For sure. Like, for real, like, at least one of them, they should have to re- visit in the hospital repeatedly.
[00:43:24] Paul Scheer: Um, I do wanna say that, June, I know you talked about your biggest jump scare of Bill coming up through that hole.
[00:43:29] June Diane Raphael: Oof.
[00:43:29] Paul Scheer: My biggest jump scare is Robin Williams with a beard. When he-
[00:43:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[00:43:34] Paul Scheer: ... when they cut to him with a full beard, that actually made the movie hit in a different way and I felt-
[00:43:41] June Diane Raphael: I didn't like it ...
[00:43:41] Paul Scheer: Even more of s- like, this movie, every time I thought you can't freak me out more, they did.
[00:43:46] June Diane Raphael: Oh, no.
[00:43:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, it felt like in those scenes, I was like, "Well, are they gonna do a move now where he becomes even more of an adult?" Where he's like "You know what? Fine. People think I'm an adult, I'm gonna grow a beard and I'm gonna act like an adult."
[00:43:59] Paul Scheer: Oh.
[00:43:59] Jason Mantzoukas: No, he just hides in his room. Um, which was fine, and I understood w- the why of that. But I, I was really like, "Oh, this is only showing me more that he's a grown man. So do something with it. Don't just have him grow a beard and, like, sit in his room." You know? I don't know.
[00:44:15] Paul Scheer: You just gave me a good idea for another version of this movie. What if he ran away from home?
[00:44:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:44:21] Paul Scheer: And which he does do, to a little bit, but he real- like, and I think that that moment-
[00:44:24] Jason Mantzoukas: That's kinda Big, you know?
[00:44:25] Paul Scheer: Right, and I think that there, I guess that's the moment that they're trying to get to where he goes outside that club. By the way, I feel so much for that one extra who had to be puking in the rain outside of that club.
[00:44:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I didn't see it.
[00:44:38] Paul Scheer: Oh, when he's walking into that club, there's just a guy outside just vomiting into the street.
[00:44:44] June Diane Raphael: I saw it.
[00:44:45] Paul Scheer: And I was like, like, uh, like I guess it's-
[00:44:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, man.
[00:44:47] Paul Scheer: ... Setting the tone of this club that looks very normal. Like, he didn't go into, like, a biker bar. And, uh, and I just was like, "Oh, that guy must have been out there just blowing chunks in the rain." Yeah. It's, like, so uncomfortable, a terrible thing. But that, that moment, I really wanted him to embrace trying to be an adult, and he doesn't even try. He's just a kid when he goes in there, and he's always like, "What is that? Beer? I don't know what beer is."
[00:45:12] Jason Mantzoukas: He's, he's, uh, he's, he's not just a kid. He's so sheltered and so without any guard, you know, or any governor on anything he does. He's like a tr- it's, it has more in common almost with Rain Man as a twee-
[00:45:28] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:45:28] Jason Mantzoukas: You know what I mean? He seems so out of his depth and element that he's not a, he's meant to be 10, obviously, which is young, but he feels even younger, you know?
[00:45:39] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:45:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Because he's so brand-new to the world, it would seem.
[00:45:43] June Diane Raphael: That's what I'm saying.
[00:45:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:45:44] June Diane Raphael: He just, and that, and that's what's so kind of distressing about it all is that there seems to be two different stories. One is just, like, the boy in the bubble who comes out into the world for the first time. You know, he's been sheltered by his parents. But the other is this kid who's, who is mentally 10 years old in this big, big old body. But it's like the story we get is the kid is 10 years old in this big old body who seems like he's four.
[00:46:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. I agree.
[00:46:15] June Diane Raphael: That's weird.
[00:46:17] Jason Mantzoukas: And what I can't tell, is he performing that because that's the kid persona that Robin Williams enjoys playing? Or is that because they're trying to tell a story and dial in-
[00:46:28] June Diane Raphael: I don't know, Jason.
[00:46:28] Jason Mantzoukas: ... and that's what they, that's what they're doing a terrible job of. It's all broad strokes, so it feels like- I don't understand what I'm supposed to be getting.
[00:46:36] Paul Scheer: Cut this movie, cut this movie up into five chapters, right?
[00:46:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.
[00:46:40] June Diane Raphael: Okay, Paul.
[00:46:40] Paul Scheer: Send, send like the, send, like I'm, I'm like this-
[00:46:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, right now? Hold on.
[00:46:43] Paul Scheer: Yeah, cut it up to five chapters.
[00:46:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Let me grab my computer.
[00:46:45] Paul Scheer: But I mean, when the-
[00:46:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Siri open Final Dr- ... Final draft.
[00:46:47] Paul Scheer: Uh, get myself some CapCut. Here we go. Um- ... I do believe that, like, it would be really interesting to do a sequence in kindergarten, uh, a sequence in high school-
[00:46:57] June Diane Raphael: Hmm. That's the first two chapters.
[00:46:58] Paul Scheer: ... uh, a sequence in college.
[00:46:59] June Diane Raphael: That's chapter three-
[00:46:59] Paul Scheer: Right, and then, and then, and then I do think that you would play, like, the very end of his life, and he just is able to drink but he looks like he's dying. He's like tw- you know, he's 21, but he's- Yeah ... actually 80, you know, 82.
[00:47:11] June Diane Raphael: On his 21st birthday.
[00:47:13] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:47:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Also, make us understand that only 20 years have passed, but he now looks fundamentally different. You know what I mean? Like, really dr- drill into us from baby to eld- truly elderly man. I feel like Benjamin Button, obviously in reverse, did this very effectively.
[00:47:32] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:47:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, obviously a, a movie that is interested in very different storytelling, but nonetheless-
[00:47:37] Paul Scheer: How so, Jason?
[00:47:40] Jason Mantzoukas: Nonetheless brings us through all these stages. Like, get us through, like, let us see movement between his grades, between his ages, because right now it feels like the entire movie is locked in at this, like, "I'm a, I'm a innocent boy. I don't know."
[00:47:56] June Diane Raphael: Stop. I don't like it, Jason.
[00:47:58] Paul Scheer: Uh, I hate it.
[00:47:58] June Diane Raphael: I didn't like it from Robin Williams, and I don't like it from you.
[00:48:00] Paul Scheer: I hate it. I hate it.
[00:48:01] Jason Mantzoukas: I got a remake, Jack.
[00:48:03] Paul Scheer: Let's get the remake going. I, I, I do believe that, like- It's because they left it in such a middle ground, I think it would've been interesting to see parts of this boy's life. Now-
[00:48:15] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree ...
[00:48:15] Paul Scheer: You know, there, there are things that are constantly surprising. I did think, and I'll admit this, I didn't cry, but I did think Pedro Pascal was in the movie, only to realize that that was Father Guido Sarducci, Don Novello-
[00:48:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[00:48:26] Paul Scheer: Who was the bartender. Oh. But I was like, "Whoa, Pedro Pascal? That's cool." And then I was like, "Oh, no, no."
[00:48:30] June Diane Raphael: Okay, that was the one comedic moment that I thought was successful.
[00:48:34] Paul Scheer: Yes, 100%.
[00:48:34] June Diane Raphael: When they were doing their faces back and forth.
[00:48:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:48:37] June Diane Raphael: That's what we needed more of too.
[00:48:39] Paul Scheer: More of, yeah.
[00:48:39] Jason Mantzoukas: More. Way more.
[00:48:40] June Diane Raphael: When he came in the adult world and not knowing all of the sort of rituals and adult sort of... they don't have to be sexual, just adult kind of-
[00:48:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Completely ...
[00:48:50] June Diane Raphael: Moments that we all subscribe to that he hasn't learned yet.
[00:48:54] Paul Scheer: Well, right, and that's why I think the relationship with Fran Drescher is so misguided because I think in Big, what she likes about him is that he is just innocent and fun, and it's not like, it's not like every other man that she's been around.
[00:49:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, he doesn't play games.
[00:49:10] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:49:10] Jason Mantzoukas: He's truthful. He's honest. He's, you know.
[00:49:12] Paul Scheer: Right, and then what I think in this movie, like, he's going, "Farts, doo-doo, poopy," and she's like, "Oh." Yeah.
[00:49:18] Movie Audio: Oh, wow. Hello, Mr. Powell. My name's Dolores, but my friends call me Dee Dee. So tell me, what happened to Principal McGee? I just talked to him on the phone.
[00:49:28] I don't know what happened to Mr. McGee. Mr. Powell?
[00:49:32] He got diarrhea.
[00:49:33] Diarrhea?
[00:49:34] Yeah, he got diarrhea. Uh Uh, and he, uh, he spewed.
[00:49:38] Spew?
[00:49:40] Threw up. Yeah, he had the, he had the squirts. He had, uh, diarrhea.
[00:49:44] Listen, you know, if you wanna have lunch or something, we can talk about Louie, and you know, just kinda shoot the breeze. What do you think? Oh, got a problem?
[00:49:59] It's bad for you. Since when is being bad, bad?
[00:50:05] Oh, no. Oh, here she goes.
[00:50:09] Paul Scheer: Like, Fran Drescher has to shut off her brain to even find any connection-
[00:50:12] June Diane Raphael: Big time.
[00:50:13] Paul Scheer: ... with this guy, 'cause he's not saying, to June's point, anything special, anything spectacular-
[00:50:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, yes.
[00:50:18] Paul Scheer: ... anything interesting.
[00:50:20] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree.
[00:50:20] June Diane Raphael: He is not a shooting star.
[00:50:21] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree. And the, the, the reality is-
[00:50:23] Paul Scheer: Jack is not.
[00:50:24] Jason Mantzoukas: ... that the movie misses. Not a shooting star. #NotAShootingStar.
[00:50:28] Paul Scheer: Oh, my God.
[00:50:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, the movie is not interested. The movie has a gift that is sitting right there, which is Jack is a fish out of water in both the adult and the kid world.
[00:50:39] And you could play that for jokes.
[00:50:42] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:50:42] Jason Mantzoukas: You know? Like, he doesn't belong in either place. Now, that's very sad and heartbreaking to investigate, and then that's what I think they're trying to do. Um, but there are moments of levity that they barely scratch the surface of that would be so great. Him trying to pretend to be an adult in the adult world, and him trying to be a kid, but the, the dissonance of him being this grown adult man.
[00:51:04] Paul Scheer: The problem with this movie is it's too sad. It's too sad ultimately, and I know that this is, and I did, was gonna save this to the end, and we have a couple second opinions to get to, um, is that Francis Ford Coppola grew up with polio, and he wanted to make something to reflect the loneliness that he felt with polio.
[00:51:22] And, and I get that idea, but that is not how you can deliver this m- it, we need to root for somebody. I don't root for Jack. Mm. I don't feel triumphant that Jack... 'Cause really, the end, to, to June's point, he's not special, so the, the real triumphant ending is that he just has lived to graduate high school?
[00:51:41] Jason Mantzoukas: To be valedictorian.
[00:51:41] Paul Scheer: And he won't live m- yeah, well, yeah. Right. But see, here's the s- He did good in school ...
[00:51:44] June Diane Raphael: Here's the thing. He is-
[00:51:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Nerd. What a fucking nerd.
[00:51:47] June Diane Raphael: ... he's not sp- he's not special, um, in, in the same way that no one is special and everyone's extraordinary, okay? But-
[00:51:55] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:51:56] June Diane Raphael: ... I think what he, I think what the movie wants us to feel at the end is also that he, he, like, changed people's lives in this short time he had on Earth, but I don't know if I really felt that either.
[00:52:12] I don't know-
[00:52:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Not meaningfully.
[00:52:14] June Diane Raphael: ... had that kid been a bully to begin with, I might have-
[00:52:17] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:52:17] June Diane Raphael: ... felt differently. I mean, I guess he did call him a freak outside the house before he knew, but we weren't with their journey enough-
[00:52:25] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:52:25] June Diane Raphael: ... To really feel like, "Oh, thank God they had this experience of having their, like, hearts expand and building empathy."
[00:52:34] Jason Mantzoukas: And what it felt like was that that little crew of boys who begin by being like, "Oh, freak," and the v- there's a freak that lives in that house or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then they, then they get to know him, then they recruit him on the, um, basketball team, and then they do the whole run of like, "Can Jack come out and play? Can Jack come out and play?" And I thought that was very sweet.
[00:52:54] Paul Scheer: You did?
[00:52:55] June Diane Raphael: God, I didn't.
[00:52:55] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I did. Listen, uh, uh, uh, some of this worked on me just as a lonely kid who also, uh, w- uh, wasn't allowed to leave the house all the time. But, um-
[00:53:06] Paul Scheer: We'll get into that later.
[00:53:06] Jason Mantzoukas: ... there's element but, um, but there's, but he really only wins over that group of friends-
[00:53:14] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:53:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Which in a typical movie would be his friends. Then the movie would investigate w- whether or not he can win over the whole school. And so to your point, June, like, he really only has his little crew of friends, which is fine, but like, give us a greater story to track for his... This is a, y- you're telling me this is a high school coming-of-age story for Jack.
[00:53:39] You know, what is he? He's 10, from 10 to 18 or 10 to 17. Like, this is a John Hughes movie. This is any of these coming-of-age movies, but Jack isn't coming of age at all.
[00:53:51] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:53:51] Jason Mantzoukas: You know what I mean?
[00:53:52] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:53:52] Jason Mantzoukas: It's not, it's not interested in any of those mile markers of, of, of getting older or any of that stuff. It really just is, "I don't want to grow up."
[00:54:03] Paul Scheer: My hot take, he should've been dead at the end, and they should have-
[00:54:06] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree.
[00:54:06] Paul Scheer: ... they should've had a little-
[00:54:08] Jason Mantzoukas: A gravestone ...
[00:54:09] Paul Scheer: a gravestone or a little picture of him and put a little graduation cap on a gravestone, and they would've walked by it, and they would've said, "You know, he taught us so much about growing up." And then you could... But the minute he gets up there, because it does- I think the thing that the movie really fails to navigate, and what we're all talking about, is this idea that he's not learned. He's not really taking anything, he's just aging rapidly, but that's not changing his perspective until the end, which we've cut to seven years, so we miss all that perspective change.
[00:54:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:54:40] Paul Scheer: And that to me is like, well, that's the movie, and that's why you should cut up into five chapters, and I'm in... Right now I'm in Cap Cut and I'm gonna get this going. I'm gonna do some pre-vis.
[00:54:49] Jason Mantzoukas: And it's really, I love, it's really cool that you're bringing chapters back to movies.
[00:54:54] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah.
[00:54:54] Jason Mantzoukas: You know? It's not just for books anymore.
[00:54:55] Paul Scheer: No. I mean, I'm doing it like weapons, I'm doing it like, uh-
[00:54:58] June Diane Raphael: That's cool.
[00:54:58] Paul Scheer: ... PTA.
[00:54:59] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, 'cause movies are getting longer, so it's nice that you're, you're breaking them up.
[00:55:02] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah. Oh-
[00:55:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Man, this-
[00:55:03] Paul Scheer: Oh, I'm gonna release them as chapter- Oh, you think I'm releasing it? I was just gonna put ti- I was gonna put some title cards in between it.
[00:55:08] June Diane Raphael: Oh.
[00:55:09] Paul Scheer: Oh, I- yeah, I will re-
[00:55:10] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I see.
[00:55:10] Paul Scheer: ... I'm gonna release it like Stephen King released The Green Mile. Uh, just, uh, little, little books. Um, here we go everybody. Uh, obviously we had an opinion about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. It is now time for Second Opinions.
[00:55:53] Music: [Second Opinions Song]
[00:55:57] Paul Scheer: Thank you for that amazing theme song. Here's the thing. Yeah, there's a lot of reviews, 4,887 total reviews.
[00:56:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:56:04] Paul Scheer: Now this movie, just so you know, tested so well that they took it out of a fall slot. It was gonna open in September, and they put it in the middle of summer. People thought this was going to be a-
[00:56:14] June Diane Raphael: This movie tested well?
[00:56:15] Paul Scheer: I have a lot of theories about testing. I will always say-
[00:56:18] Jason Mantzoukas: This is an era where garbage like this would test well simply because of all the people ...
[00:56:23] Paul Scheer: Zookeeper, Zookeeper, the Kevin James movie tested at 100%. I think that there's a trick in these movies-
[00:56:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Hey, listen, I was at that test. I stand by it.
[00:56:32] Paul Scheer: I do think that there's a trick in all these movies where if you end on a high note, there's something beautiful about that last scene that in a way, if you cry, you rate the movie high.
[00:56:41] So I, I don't think that people are taking in the sum total of its parts. I, I, that's the only way I can say, that, that, they, this convinced Disney to move this movie into summer competition where it flopped. Anyway-
[00:56:52] June Diane Raphael: This is not a summer movie ...
[00:56:53] Paul Scheer: it's not. But 87% are five-star reviews. Renee Rastall says... now, just bear with me because the language here is tricky. She writes,
[00:57:04] "Kid is a big monster, but figures out he's just a normal person until he goes to school. He is just seven years old, but he look like 20 year old. It is quite funny. He go into one of the kids' tree house and has fun with them, but his friend, which is a grownup, the tree house fall down, and he sings, and everyone says, 'Why is everyone falling on me?' When he graduates, he is old man, and he looks like he's about 70. You will find it a very funny movie." Five stars.
[00:57:31] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, I think that says it all. I think in order to find this movie funny, you have to be a non-native English speaker- I think. Right?
[00:57:39] Paul Scheer: All, yes. I mean, this is what I think it is. I do think it-
[00:57:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Because I think that's the cues that the movie is giving you.
[00:57:45] Paul Scheer: Yes ...
[00:57:45] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, is funny Robin Williams movie, but it's n- anything but.
[00:57:50] Paul Scheer: Right. If you watch it silently, you might think, "Oh, maybe this is funny." I mean, honestly, as I'm looking through this, I, I don't find any really great, fun reviews because they all are like- Yeah ...
[00:57:59] "This is an amazing, heartfelt movie that all kids should see. It shows how thankful we can be to have a life, and it's a gift. There's moderate swearing, and, uh, there is the use of a middle finger and several r- uses of other items. Kids make other kids do things they don't wanna do. There is rude humor and dirty magazines, and one kid buys a dirty magazine for others."
[00:58:17] And that is from Shan, Mike, and Kylie, five stars, good. It's like, yeah, this is like, this is like Catholic, uh, review central.
[00:58:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:58:26] Paul Scheer: And the final one that I, I hate to read to you, Jason, but, uh, I will.
[00:58:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, boy.
[00:58:30] Paul Scheer: From Letterboxd-
[00:58:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Here we go.
[00:58:31] Paul Scheer: ... From Audrey. She wrote this in 2025. "I should have foreseen that a, a season of mental instability was brewing when I loudly wept through about one-third of Francis Ford Coppola's Jack."
[00:58:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, no. Oh, no. I gotta call, I gotta call my therapist.
[00:58:50] Paul Scheer: Um- You know, June had to jet, so it's just Jason and I, I mean, I guess the resounding opinion would be this is not even worth watching for fun.
[00:58:57] Jason Mantzoukas: It's not.
[00:58:58] Paul Scheer: It's a slog.
[00:58:58] Jason Mantzoukas: It's not.
[00:58:59] Paul Scheer: It's a saccharine slog.
[00:59:00] Jason Mantzoukas: It's, it's too long. It's a, it's... Yes, ex- t- exactly, you're right. It's treacly. It's not fun. There's no propulsive engine that's guiding you through it. It's two hours, and it feels like two hours.
[00:59:12] Paul Scheer: And I was wondering about this, and I know that if you go back through our catalog, you could listen to, uh, what was that?
[00:59:19] The Odd Life of Timothy Green.
[00:59:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Very similar.
[00:59:21] Paul Scheer: A movie that is similar.
[00:59:22] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree.
[00:59:22] Paul Scheer: Right? But I know that you like that more than June and I, but, like but all I will say is that works at least better conceptually.
[00:59:32] Jason Mantzoukas: It, well, it has a more... Okay, so I think that this movie, I wonder if this movie would have been markedly different if magic was the engine rather than medicine or, or science.
[00:59:44] Paul Scheer: Right. Yes, yes.
[00:59:45] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, if he didn't have a disease that was, that I was trying to crack and figure out throughout, if he instead was magic.
[00:59:53] Paul Scheer: Right. It's-
[00:59:53] Jason Mantzoukas: And so I could free myself from trying to make sense of it, you know what I mean? And just be like, "Okay."
[00:59:58] Paul Scheer: Make it about a latchkey kid who's like, "I'm always home alone. I feel like an adult," and then he becomes an adult.
[01:00:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Boom.
[01:00:02] Paul Scheer: And then, you know, or, or like, I think-
[01:00:04] Jason Mantzoukas: The Paul Scheer story
[01:00:05] Paul Scheer: Oh, I love that, man. I was... But I do think that, like, that's what it was missing, it was-
[01:00:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[01:00:10] Paul Scheer: And I think that that's the reason why the scenes aren't fun and the sequences aren't fun because there's no... it's like if he was friends with these kids, then if he becomes an adult, then it's like, "Oh my gosh, our good friend now can do all the things that we wanted to do." You know? And-
[01:00:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, and there's something about Big, in Big, and I know it's, it's not fair to k- keep comparing it to Big because they are trying to do different things, but Big isn't about his mortality.
[01:00:35] Paul Scheer: Right.
[01:00:35] Jason Mantzoukas: And the, the, it, it, the movie that we just watched is entirely about his mortality, you know?
[01:00:43] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[01:00:43] Jason Mantzoukas: It is about, it's about him, his inevitable impending death, you know?
[01:00:49] Paul Scheer: Right.
[01:00:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Because he's r- r- aging so rapidly that the whole movie is there... The parents are so scared, they're so nervous, they're so tentative, all of these things because they're afraid he's gonna, like, die sooner than he will, which is very soon.
[01:01:04] Paul Scheer: Well-
[01:01:04] Jason Mantzoukas: You know?
[01:01:05] Paul Scheer: By the way, you know, you said it's different than Big, which I agree with you, it is different than Big, but, uh, Tom Hanks was the first choice for this role because-
[01:01:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I'm sure.
[01:01:15] Paul Scheer: ... Francis Ford Coppola saw him in Big. Why would you even want to have that association?
[01:01:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Can you imagine? I mean, nuts. That's so funny
[01:01:24] Paul Scheer: It's like, why would you do that? Anyway, so yes, a resounding we-
[01:01:28] Jason Mantzoukas: I don't recommend.
[01:01:28] Paul Scheer: ... we don't recommend it. Uh, however, we do recommend that you head on over to the How Did This Get Made store. We have some amazing new designs. I don't even think this one warrants a design unless we just wanted to make one shirt that's-
[01:01:40] Jason Mantzoukas: No, let's give another design to some other movie that we- Let, let's, let, uh, let's not... yeah, let's punish movies that don't warrant, that, that we don't have... I- There's nothing that has happened in the movie or in our discussion that I want memorialized.
[01:01:53] Paul Scheer: The only thing I would love is just, I have Jack syndrome, and we do it in the lettering of Jack the movie, so adults could wear a Jack syn-
[01:02:00] Jason Mantzoukas: What would it be? Or it's just a picture of Jack and it says, "Not a shooting star."
[01:02:04] Paul Scheer: Not special.
[01:02:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Is that what June's-
[01:02:05] Paul Scheer: Yeah, like not a shooting star.
[01:02:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Is that what June calls it?
[01:02:08] Paul Scheer: We'll see if we'll do that, but, uh, you can head on over, uh, to our brand new merch store. Go to HDTGM. Um, June and I are shooting these, uh, live multi-cam shows here in Los Angeles in the month of October.
[01:02:19] If you go to How Did This Get Made website, you can, uh, write us and get tickets. It's out here in Los Angeles. It'd be fun. Jason, anything that you want to promote?
[01:02:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, you know, I don't have anything really to promote that's mine, uh, necessarily, but I would love to plug a couple of things that I have nothing to do with, but I think are fantastic.
[01:02:38] Uh, Taskmaster season 22 has just started. Richard Ayoade is in the, is in the, uh-
[01:02:43] Paul Scheer: So excited that he's in this one.
[01:02:43] Jason Mantzoukas: ... is in the cast, and it is incredible already. Um, uh, Reacher season four, come on, forget about it.
[01:02:50] Paul Scheer: I have not watched it yet, and I've heard that they've flipped the script on Reacher, and I'm excited to see how they've done it.
[01:02:55] Jason Mantzoukas: I'm gonna tell you this. It is absolutely hilarious.
[01:02:59] Paul Scheer: Oh, cannot wait.
[01:03:00] Jason Mantzoukas: But not as hilarious as-
[01:03:00] Paul Scheer: Does he become a child?
[01:03:02] Jason Mantzoukas: No, I wish.
[01:03:03] Paul Scheer: He doesn't become Jacked or he d- or he becomes reverse Jacked.
[01:03:05] Jason Mantzoukas: I wish Alan Ritchson could become Jack. I did see Motor City, which is the Alan Ritchson movie where he, there's absolutely no dialogue.
[01:03:14] It's just a top to bottom revenge, uh, thriller that is so violent and so fun, and there's, I'm gonna say, sub 15 lines of dialogue total-
[01:03:24] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[01:03:24] Jason Mantzoukas: ... in the whole movie.
[01:03:25] Paul Scheer: I wanna see that.
[01:03:25] Jason Mantzoukas: It's great. Um, but the, the, the funniest movie I've seen this year that is gonna be hard to beat is John Early's phenomenal movie, Maddie's Secret-
[01:03:35] Paul Scheer: Oh, I wanna see this.
[01:03:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Which is absolutely mind-blowingly funny, and I cannot recommend it enough. Everybody needs to see Maddie's Secret. It is fantastic.
[01:03:46] Paul Scheer: I love this. Now, by the way, if you wanna talk to us more about Jack, you have a correction or omission from this episode, you can leave us a voicemail. We have a voicemail that, it works perfectly at Speakpipe.com/HDTGM, or you can write to us on our Discord at Discord.gg/HDTGM.
[01:04:00] Now, we also, Jason, you may not know about this, we have a How Did This Get Made mini league in this year's Vulture Movies Fantasy League. It is a fun-
[01:04:08] Jason Mantzoukas: What?
[01:04:08] Paul Scheer: Yeah, so basically what it is, is like fantasy football, but with movies.
[01:04:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.
[01:04:11] Paul Scheer: You pick what movies you think will make the most money based on the budget that you have. So you can't just bank on all the big movies. You have to kind of-
[01:04:20] Jason Mantzoukas: I see.
[01:04:20] Paul Scheer: ... put together an interesting mix. Uh, you can go to Vulture.com/HDTGM, or just click on the link in today's episode notes. Remember, if you follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed to our feed and have automatic downloads turned on.
[01:04:34] It helps us, and we appreciate that. And you can check out our Instagram page for some live video from our live shows, uh, and that's @HDTGM. And lastly, I have to give a huge thanks to our crew behind the scenes. I'm talking about our producer, Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds, and our engineer, Casey Holford, as well as our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum.
[01:04:50] And we will forever be grateful to the one and only Avaryl Halley. That's all I got, people. We'll see you next week on Last Looks. Bye, Jason.
[01:04:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Goodbye.