Legendary graphic novel writer and TV showrunner Ed Brubaker joins Paul & Jason to continue breaking down Ghosts of Mars, share his experience adapting Criminal into a new Amazon TV series, discuss writing his own Parker story along with giving thoughts on Shane Black's Parker adaptation, Play Dirty, and so much more. But first, Paul answers all your Corrections & Omissions on our Ghosts of Mars episode. And as always, we announce next week's movie! Ed's new Criminal book THE KNIVES is in stores now, THE FRIDAY DELUXE EDITION HARDBACK comes out November 12th, and the new GIANT SIZED CRIMINAL #1 comes out December 3rd.
Legendary graphic novel writer and TV showrunner Ed Brubaker joins Paul & Jason to continue breaking down Ghosts of Mars, share his experience adapting Criminal into a new Amazon TV series, discuss writing his own Parker story along with giving thoughts on Shane Black's Parker adaptation, Play Dirty, and so much more. But first, Paul answers all your Corrections & Omissions on our Ghosts of Mars episode. And as always, we announce next week's movie!
Ed's new Criminal book THE KNIVES is in stores now, THE FRIDAY DELUXE EDITION HARDBACK comes out November 12th, and the new GIANT SIZED CRIMINAL #1 comes out December 3rd.
[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: What's a breather? Is Ed Brubaker's new book based on his own experience writing a TV show from Amazon? And are the Ghosts of Mars against rock and roll? All this and more on a brand new How Did This Get Made Last Looks. Hit the theme.
[00:00:20] Music: [Intro Song]
[00:00:29] Paul Scheer: Hello all you Orca whale aliens. I am your ghost host with the most big daddy Paul, and welcome to How Did This Get Made Last Looks where you, the listener, get to voice your issues on John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars. A movie that Discord user Quantum Volt thinks should have had the tagline,
[00:00:54] Ghosts of Mars: Sometimes the cure for possession is drugs.
[00:01:00] Thank you Quantum Volt for that alt movie title, and a big shout out to Quinn for that spooky John Carpenter inspired opening theme song. I'll let you know that our John Carpenter of Mars shirt, which is a big daddy Paul, is available in the How Did This Get Made Store. You can go to HDTGM.com and pick it up, uh, as a coffee mug, a sticker, whatever you'd like.
[00:01:24] It's actually a pretty great design, uh, something you could wear out and could maybe fool people that this is a little known John Carpenter film. Remember, if you have an alt movie tagline or a title, submit it to us on the discord at Discord.gg/HDTGM. And if you have a Last Looks theme song, go ahead and tell us to play it by uploading it on HDTGM.com Uh, that's all you have to do. Just click on the submit a song button on our homepage. Remember, keep 'em short. 15 to 20 seconds is best. Alright, coming up on today's episode, we'll be hearing all of your corrections and omissions on John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars.
[00:01:58] Plus Jason and I will chat with legendary comic book writer Ed Brubaker, who you might remember from our Daredevil episode. We get Ed's thoughts on Ghosts of Mars. He is a huge fan and we will also discuss how Ed approached adapting his book Criminal into a brand new show for Amazon plus a whole lot more.
[00:02:17] And don't worry, as always, at the end of the show, we'll reveal next week's film. Alright, everybody, if you're hearing this on Friday, How Did This Get Made is going to be in Philly tomorrow, November 8th. You can buy tickets at H-D-T-G-M, um, you know, and if you missed it earlier in the week, um, and this is a awkward transition to get into, but I do think it's worthy to take a moment, uh.
[00:02:41] This week we lost our producer Avaryl Halley, and I was able to record something, uh, a little less jarring than just kind of talking about her in the Last Looks episode on our matinee episode that aired on Tuesday. So, um, as we all are still just absolutely gutted from the loss of Avaryl, I feel like that's a better place for you to hear, uh, how we all are feeling and, uh, what we all are going through.
[00:03:12] So, I appreciate everyone who has written, um, their wonderful and beautiful condolences on the How Did This Get Made page. Um, and again, we just send so much love to a Avaryl's family and friends. Um, and if you wanna just support Avaryl, check out her page, uh, on Instagram Movie Bitches, and of course her YouTube channel, uh, where you can see some of her amazing work.
[00:03:36] If you like RuPaul's Drag Race, uh, I mean Avaryl was, and Andrew were doing some great, great, hilarious stuff. Um, so yeah, we miss her very, very much. And, uh, like I said, listen to our Matinee Tuesday episode to, uh, hear a fuller episode, uh, devoted to her. Whew. Okay. Let it out. Now we'll go back into show mode and say, last week we talked at length about Ghosts of Mars.
[00:04:03] We had questions and we might have even missed a few things. Here's your chance to set us straight fact. Check us, if you will. It is now time for corrections and omissions,
[00:04:14] Music: [Corrections and Omissions Song]
[00:04:19] Paul Scheer: Thank you Mad Licks for that theme song. Love that name by the way. Let's go to the Discord. Sean McBee writes,
[00:04:25] "I spent the beginning of the movie thinking that everyone was somehow breathing through their goggles, but it's actually these little silver things on their collars, as evidenced by the one shot where Natasha Hendrick can be seen breathing directly from it with accompany air sounds."
[00:04:40] Uh, now there's a picture that, uh, Sean put up and he's not lying. Uh, it maybe, uh, it seems like it's outputting enough oxygen in the general direction of their faces to supplement the 80% atmospheric conversion to earth levels. So you just think that they have like a fan blowing on them the entire time.
[00:04:57] I thought it was through their goggles too, like through their eyes. We need to get answers, Sean. And honestly, this idea that they have just a little vent blowing in their face has, uh, put more questions in front of this. People, come to the rescue. We may need to ask Ed Brubaker about this. Unfortunately, we recorded our chat with him a while ago, so I will not be able to ask him.
[00:05:22] But good thing there is somebody in the Discord who can answer this, and that is Flat Baby. Flat Baby adds,
[00:05:30] "I just watched it. And yes, the glasses are unrelated to the breathers. It's an editing oversight that they just happen to be putting on the glasses and talking about over the face mask while also talking about breathers. Later on, Nell sucks air from a chest mounted nozzle like a Camelback tube, and the guy who cuts off his thumb is using a black market breather called a laugher, which looks more like an asthma inhaler."
[00:05:54] Whoa. Okay. So I thought he was like vaping or doing drugs too. So I guess it's like an asthma inhaler that lasts for a very long time.
[00:06:00] I guess. Again, Flat Baby. You've clarified some things and I appreciate that. And what, what a, what a jump. Why not just say we pressurized Mars? Why not at that point? Right?
[00:06:12] Uh, Fun Fact 47 writes,
[00:06:13] "Why is it in both the movie and the Doom movie, which also takes place in the future on Mars, there's futuristic technology, yet the characters have to hold a flashlight in one hand and their gun in the other. You'd think they have figured out the built in night vision."
[00:06:30] You know what? You're right. And I also believe, Fun Facts 47, that there are guns with. Flashlights on top of them. I, I feel like I've seen enough movies where people are like, it's a mounted thing, like a scope, but it's a flashlight. Am I right?
[00:06:41] Am I wrong? Gun owners let me know.
[00:06:43] Gratuitous Silence writes,
[00:06:44] "It sounded like the group thought the disease miners were ghosts, but I understood more to be like an infection. IE The Last of Us, the ghosts were old organisms or spores, not actual spirits that used to be on the surface. And when they were isolated in quarantine, maybe an infected species got locked away in that tomb, which then makes more sense that they only travel via wind. People respond like crazy zombies when infected and that the drugs counter the effects. But does that make the other things harder, like sentient and seemingly choosing to leave Melanie's body when she takes the drugs?"
[00:07:16] Well, Gratuitous Silence. We are on the same page. I think the ghosts are the infection.
[00:07:22] There's a spore that, uh, is dormant that then flies into people's, uh, bodies. Right. So I guess a ghosts use liberally, uh, that the ghost, the spore is living. I mean, or So what you're saying is there's no such a thing as ghosts, um, because the ghosts also have a lot of wherewithal, right? Oh boy. But it's not like zombies because they are sentient, so they are looking for a host.
[00:07:48] You know what? I think the fact that we have spent more time than clearly, uh, John Carpenter might have spent on this, uh, means that it is time for a reboot. Gratuitous Silence, please get that going. Alright, let's go to the phones. Mindy, you're up.
[00:08:05] Listener: Hey Paul. My brother and I went to Ghosts of Mars and my boyfriend's back this week.
[00:08:08] Amazing shows. I think I can explain Ghosts of Mars. It's a satanic panic movie, and the moral is that if your kids listen to heavy metal, they will pierce their fingers, file their teeth, and become cannibals. That's why every time we see the zombie martian ghosts acting up, it turns into a bizarre eighties music video. The only part I can't explain is why drugs save the day. But still the movie has Satanic panic written all over it. Thanks for great shows.
[00:08:31] Paul Scheer: Mindy. I love this take. I mean, yes, the drugs, we can't really, I guess drugs is cool, but rock and roll isn't, I don't know, but I love that idea that this is about rock music.
[00:08:44] I mean, the music in the movie is also like kind of rocking too. So is it like a meta satanic panic movie? Like rock and roll comes to Mars and then it controls all of us and we don't wanna work for the man anymore. Rock and roll sets us free and they try to put the rock and roll in the cave. But you can't keep rock and roll down.
[00:09:04] No, you can't. And, uh, you know what? Rock and roll lives as long as you don't do drugs. Because the best rock and rollers have been killed by drugs. Right? Is that maybe where we're at? Mindy, you're a genius. I love it. Next up, Fuzzy from Connecticut.
[00:09:18] Music: Hey Paul. Um, watching Ghosts from Mars. Neither June nor Jason comment on the fact that Pam Breer was wearing leather gauchos, uh, was shocked and disappointed. Anyway, I thought it was a trench coat definitely long leather captions. Love the show. Thanks.
[00:09:35] Paul Scheer: First of all, thank you, Fuzzy for not expecting me to, uh, comment on those leather gaucho pants. Uh, I like that you're just like, no, I'm not even gonna say I'm disappointed in you. You know, I wouldn't go there, but yeah, I agree.
[00:09:49] I am also disappointed in them. But you know what? Here's the thing. There's so much other stuff not making sense in this, that the gaucho pants might be the only thing that does. Let's go back to the discord, Frosted Nebula, AKA, that's Jafar. Uh, we love Jafar. Jafar was a presence in our last LA shows and, uh, many of the shows in the last year.
[00:10:09] Uh, Jafar, what do you got?
[00:10:11] "Towards the end of the DVD commentary with John Carpenter and Natasha Hendrich. Carpenter is talking about Natasha downplaying her acting and she says, well, John, every day when you got to set, you would say loudly. This is the biggest piece of shit I've ever made, and it didn't inspire much confidence in the rest of the team."
[00:10:26] Whoa. I thought that they were in a separate places when they said these things about the movie, but no, Frosted Nebula. AKA Jafar says it is one of the most awkward commentary tracks I have ever heard. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Well, you know what? You get paid to do commentary tracks, so I guess they wanted some of that money.
[00:10:44] But, uh, I am now definitely gonna go hunt down this DVD and listen to that. That sounds ideal.
[00:10:49] Um, alright. CNU 2007 writes,
[00:10:52] "As it turns out, big daddy Mars is from the underworld and just wants to destroy Mars. This is Canon as seen on my official big daddy Mars trading card."
[00:11:03] Wait, what? There were trading cards for Ghost of Mars?
[00:11:07] Well, yes there is. Uh, our producer Scott, uh, has an image here. This is a, uh, this is a Mint card I'm looking at and, uh, I'll tell you some of the things that were on the back. Hobbies. Uh, for this is Big Daddy Mars, uh, headhunting and body piercing. I love that he has hobbies, facts you didn't know Big Daddy Mars has over 200 body piercings.
[00:11:27] Okay, so the hobbies and the facts you didn't know kind of, uh, go together. I like that he has body piercings. Again. Is this a miner that had body piercings? Because I would imagine that, well, I guess maybe he got to work. I mean, he must be sore. That ghost came out, found a miner, and then just started piercing the hell out of himself.
[00:11:44] Uh, description.
[00:11:45] "The beast of the night is a true wanderer. A roamer who brings devastation and pain to all the encounters, a product of the underworld. His desire to reap disaster upon Mars is malicious and destructive. Watch out. For he can steal one's soul and damn it for eternity. With his presence alone, tranquility is impossible on Mars."
[00:12:03] Wow. When a trading card fills in that much backstory, you know, you got some problems.
[00:12:08] W Rosen Krantz writes,
[00:12:09] "This might be controversial, but, they should remake a Ghosts of Mars. The basic ideas could be turned into something fun. It was big enough that they could benefit from advertising. A name people already know, and the original wasn't sacred to anybody, so the remake won't automatically be worse."
[00:12:22] Well, you know what? I love this idea. As a matter of fact, I already brought it up that, uh, that we should have done it. Uh, you know, that maybe Gratuitous Silence should have done it, but maybe now the question is who from the, the Geek Squad should be in this? Because I feel like this is a good Geek Squad movie.
[00:12:37] Maybe it's, maybe Jason and I could be in it with June. Uh, we're, you know, we're, we're with the Geek Squad. Maybe get killed early. I don't know. I think there's a lot of options here. So let us know who you would cast in the Ghosts of Mars remake, and the best person who writes up a little description with a cast.
[00:12:52] We will read it here on the next Last Looks. Wow. Wow, wow. I'm blown away. So many great corrections and omissions this week, but there can only be one winner. And look, the gaucho pants. Yes, no one mentioned it. That was a very shocking omission. I will say that knowing the breathers are not actually goggles.
[00:13:09] Sean McBee, that's pretty great. Now, I would also say that CNU 2 0 0 7, uh, might win, but. I don't know. I mean, the fact that CNU has a trading card is pretty impressive. You know what? That's what I'm gonna pick. If you have trading cards for Ghosts of Mars, you should win something. Alright, CNU 2007. You are the winner.
[00:13:29] And you get this amazing song from Garrett Parker. Hit it.
[00:13:35] Music: [Winner's Song]
[00:13:40] Paul Scheer: Okay. If you wanna chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode, please hit up our discord or leave us a message by calling 619 PAUL ASK. Coming up after the break, Jason and I will sit down for a chat with Ed Brubaker. So stick around.
[00:13:55] Welcome back. Now, um, every Tuesday we re-release a classic How Did This Get Made episode back onto our feed this week. Like I mentioned, we did something a little bit different, um, to celebrate our producer Avaryl Halley, uh, celebrate her life and we wanted to, uh, make something that she might enjoy. So last week's matinee covered the 2020 Chloe Grace Maritz film, uh, where gremlins get loose on a plane, right?
[00:14:26] It's one of our least selling shirts, uh, where a gremlin is on the wing, but it's called Shadow in the Cloud. And you'll understand why we picked that one. If you take a listen. And by the way, if you're not watching Dark Web with Rob Huebel and I. Some crazy stuff has been going on. Uh, check out Dark Web.
[00:14:41] Our studio burnt down. Rob and I now are, uh, in the woods, fending for ourselves, high on mustard. Uh, but enough about that, it is now time to talk to a true legend. That's right, Jason and I get to join our pal Ed Brubaker. Now, Ed Brubaker is, uh, an Eisner Award-winning artist, a brilliant graphic novelist, a uh, television writer.
[00:15:03] He is just an all about gem who also, uh, has a bad movie club. His new book in the criminal series is called The Knives. It's available right now. We're gonna talk about that in a bit. The hardback version of his Friday series comes out next week on November 12th, and this TV show. Based on his criminal series, which I saw the first two episodes of and I loved, uh, does not have a release date yet.
[00:15:24] We're gonna talk about it a little bit and his experience adapting it, which I think you can also get a little taste of If you read Knives, um, you are in store for a very fun conversation because not only are we gonna talk about all that, but Ed was so mad that he was not the guest for Ghosts of Mars.
[00:15:42] Alright, so without any further ado, please, John Astonish hit the theme song.
[00:15:48] Music: [Just Chat Song]
[00:15:49] Paul Scheer: Welcome back to the show, Ed. And first question, you are a Ghosts of Mars aficionado?
[00:15:57] Jason Mantzoukas: An expert. How, Ed?
[00:15:59] Ed Brubaker: I. Okay. Look, remember DVDs?
[00:16:02] Paul Scheer: Yes, of course.
[00:16:03] Ed Brubaker: Remember, remember. The, remember the aughts? Remember Obama?
[00:16:06] Paul Scheer: He's my favorite Mark Maron guest.
[00:16:08] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. I am a John Carpenter fan who is married to someone who is an even bigger John Carpenter fan.
[00:16:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Got it.
[00:16:15] Paul Scheer: Nice.
[00:16:16] Ed Brubaker: And Ghosts of Mars came out at this era where we had built, like we used to live in Seattle and we had built like a little theater room in our basement that could fit about seven people comfortably. And so I would just have these evenings where I would just like, I'm gonna watch like three sci-fi movies tonight. And Ghosts of Mars, I believe is one of the most fun re watchable John Carpenter movies from that big era.
[00:16:42] Paul Scheer: Wow, okay.
[00:16:43] Ed Brubaker: Like I would rank it 10 times better than his fucking vampires movie.
[00:16:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, but there therein lies my question for you, Ed. Why rewatch the movies from the bad era?
[00:16:53] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:16:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, what's the benefit of that? It's one you just said, it's one of the best movies from that bad era.
[00:17:00] Ed Brubaker: I mean, I don't know that I would qualify Ghosts of Mars as bad. It's not prime, you know.
[00:17:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Certainly not.
[00:17:06] Ed Brubaker: But like. I mean, Memoirs of an Invisible Man. Are you gonna watch that ever again? No. Like, no. I mean, there's no amount of money, but Ghosts of Mars, like, it's so fucking weird. It's almost like the ultimate John Carpenter movie. 'cause it has that weird thing where he's always like, kind of about violence and the downfall of society, but also about matriarchies.
[00:17:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:17:28] Ed Brubaker: And how, and like powerful women. And so I kind of loved that. I, I also loved the fact that Courtney Love, like, walked off the set after three days. Like.
[00:17:36] Jason Mantzoukas: I wanna know. That's, I love that. I love that component of it. And I love the John Carpenter. These are my themes. These are the things I'm interested in.
[00:17:45] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:17:45] Jason Mantzoukas: It just did not come together satisfyingly in a way, even for us, that I was like, what a blast. You know? No, I wa it didn't land right for me.
[00:17:54] Ed Brubaker: I think it's his era where he got. Not interested in action scenes. So like both vampires and that one, the action scenes often go to like a montage showing you what happened in moments and you're like.
[00:18:06] Paul Scheer: There are.
[00:18:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Happen off screen. Or like, Pam Greer is killed off screen. Yeah, go ahead.
[00:18:11] Paul Scheer: The fact that like he, you know, does a transition cut or like a, a cut when they're walking down the hallway. A lot of weird editing choices. And I think from reading my interviews with him about this movie where I feel like it failed was he was trying to make a dumb B movie, but it was too smart to be as dumb. Like the ending scene, the chrome guns.
[00:18:36] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:18:37] Paul Scheer: And like I'm like, that's the movie.
[00:18:39] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:39] Paul Scheer: Like I think he has a hard time walking that line. Or I don't know. It's like, it, it, it presents more serious than I think he intends. And that's where I feel like he needs that help in my mind.
[00:18:53] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. No, I agree. I think there must have been some push from the studio on some of this stuff because Yeah. It's just, it felt like he, to try to address studio notes, tried to do some interesting things in the edit.
[00:19:05] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:19:05] Ed Brubaker: So that it's like you don't see if she dies or not. And like, structurally, it's so weird. But I, I found it fascinating. And I also loved like the dumb performances and what a weird phase to have Jason Statham, you know, where Jason can't decide with if he's, if he's bald or has hair.
[00:19:22] Paul Scheer: Yeah. We, it's talked about this. This is an important moment for us. Yeah.
[00:19:25] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. No, as a baldest, I, yes. You know, I, because Jason Statham is one of the only bald sex symbols that we get.
[00:19:33] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:19:33] Ed Brubaker: Like even in pornography, we don't have bald sex symbols that often.
[00:19:37] Paul Scheer: No, you need, you need.
[00:19:39] Jason Mantzoukas: In pornography.
[00:19:43] Ed Brubaker: You don't need to see the man man's face at all.
[00:19:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Let's be clear.
[00:19:46] Paul Scheer: It's nice to know.
[00:19:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Even in pornography, we don't have it.
[00:19:49] Paul Scheer: It's nice to know.
[00:19:50] Ed Brubaker: It's rare. I mean, don't look Mr. Hair. You're nothing but hair. Paul and I can talk about.
[00:19:54] Jason Mantzoukas: I'm sorry. I'll log off.
[00:19:55] Ed Brubaker: We're in the Larry David Club.
[00:19:56] Paul Scheer: Yes. This is important for us. We look at these bald men.
[00:19:59] Ed Brubaker: Jason just turned his screen off.
[00:20:03] Paul Scheer: Uh, I will say that there are some things that I really love about it. I think, and I know this is now probably just a rumor and it's not true that. This was supposed to be like the third Escape From movie, like, uh oh. Escape From Mars. Because like Desolation Williams looks and dresses like Snake Polskin or Polskin, sorry, Polskin. Yeah. And, uh, and
[00:20:25] Ed Brubaker: Oh, that's true.
[00:20:26] Paul Scheer: You know, but I would've loved Kurt Russell like that would've, I think they just want You wanted some more dumb stuff. It just didn't enough stuff.
[00:20:32] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. What the movie lacks that so many other John Carpenter movies have is everybody is dower and down.
[00:20:40] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:20:41] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:20:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Nobody has that light touch. Nobody can, nobody has that kind of, that, that swagger, that wink, that, you know, everybody is like gritty and realistic or trying to be in a way that is like, oh, I need somebody who has a little bit of a light touch a little bit, can let the steam out of this. You know?
[00:21:00] Ed Brubaker: I mean, I think that Ice Cube was, was intended to be that.
[00:21:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:21:05] Ed Brubaker: And, and for me, it works since I'm a huge Cube fan.
[00:21:07] Paul Scheer: I love Cube.
[00:21:08] Ed Brubaker: And honestly, that's when I, those are my favorite parts of the movie. Like literally, I cannot ever go to that taco shop on Sunset that's like right without just hearing in my head, drop the Gun Sconzo and um, like just the weird names of characters.
[00:21:23] I love the dumb shit that Carpenter puts in his stuff that's just so idiosyncratic and him like Desolation Williams.
[00:21:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Ed Brubaker: What a fucking name.
[00:21:33] Paul Scheer: Great name.
[00:21:33] Ed Brubaker: When I did. Sleeper. There's a character named Genocide Jones, and that is a tribute to.
[00:21:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.
[00:21:39] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[00:21:39] Ed Brubaker: John Carpenter, the way he names characters, what is it? Napoleon Williams in, uh, Assault on Precinct 13. It's like Napoleon, somebody, it's always like a really flamboyant first name and Smith.
[00:21:50] Jason Mantzoukas: And a very generic.
[00:21:51] Ed Brubaker: You know, like, like Slaughterhouse Bill.
[00:21:55] Paul Scheer: I mean, it's, it's very, uh, Thomas Pension, right? With uh, like One Battle After Another. Like all the names mean something. But here's the thing. I like Ice Cube and I think though he falls into that category of not knowing how to walk that line between dumb tough guy. Like that's what like Kurt Russell.
[00:22:17] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:22:18] Paul Scheer: Has in spades, right?
[00:22:19] Ed Brubaker: Oh yeah.
[00:22:20] Paul Scheer: You, you believe that he could maybe win in a fight or that like he's got a bravado and ego and I feel like with Cube it's like, no, this guy's just cool. Like, there's like.
[00:22:29] Ed Brubaker: No, no. He's the same guy from Friday, basically.
[00:22:31] Paul Scheer: Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:22:32] Jason Mantzoukas: And he's great, but he lacks that. Uh, what's wonderful about Kurt Russell, especially in these movies, let's say Big Trouble, is that character loses fights. That character.
[00:22:42] Paul Scheer: He basically is hanging.
[00:22:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Is willing to be embarrassed, you know, or willing to be. And that we don't have in this, everybody's at maximum heroism. You know?
[00:22:51] Paul Scheer: I, I agree. Like you want just somebody that just feels like should have right? Or, or you just have Natasha Hendrich not be like, you need somebody to have. Everyone was too cool and too tough. And if that's the version of the movie and you're making a B movie, then you need to make 'em dumber, but also cool and tough.
[00:23:12] But I feel like they were just cool and tough. But maybe that's directing. I don't know. Everyone seems so pissed off. Every interview that I read, they're like, he fucked us. We thought we were doing.
[00:23:23] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, even Ice Cube is like, I'm a big John Carpenter fan, but don't watch that movie. And I'm like, oh man, I feel bad. Because it's like, it's literally the, is it, it's the last thing Carpenter made that I think is interesting at all.
[00:23:33] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:23:34] Ed Brubaker: Like, I don't know if he's made anything since that.
[00:23:35] Paul Scheer: He made one movie after that, I think in 2010.
[00:23:38] Ed Brubaker: Amber Heard movie or whatever, that I never watched.
[00:23:41] Paul Scheer: Something. Yes. I mean.
[00:23:42] Ed Brubaker: Which he's like in an insane asylum. I don't know.
[00:23:44] Paul Scheer: Did, did John Carpenter ever talk about working with Chevy Chase? Because that is really interesting to me.
[00:23:50] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:23:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I don't know. I'd love to know.
[00:23:52] Paul Scheer: Yeah. Oh, that to me is like that. 'cause that's guy kind of peak, Chevy Chase, like right. Where he's like, not peak, but like. It's not gonna go great. Right? Yeah. Like, but like you could tell he could be like an asshole. Oh, I bet you there's some good stories there.
[00:24:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Also, because John Carpenter is so no bullshit.
[00:24:12] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:24:13] Jason Mantzoukas: He's like, he, he says what's on his mind.
[00:24:16] Paul Scheer: I love this.
[00:24:16] Ed Brubaker: That's true. Apparently, according to, uh, the, um. Blank Check. Beverly DeAngelo is the only person who has never said a bad thing about Chevy Chase.
[00:24:26] Paul Scheer: There's always, always one defender only. Always one only.
[00:24:31] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. I'll, I will point out Beverly DeAngelo was married to like Al Pacino forever. So like Chevy Chase is probably not a big deal.
[00:24:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:24:38] Ed Brubaker: To deal with.
[00:24:38] Jason Mantzoukas: So much more, easier to handle.
[00:24:40] Paul Scheer: I did a, uh, a short film with Beverly DiAngelo who was absolutely lovely, very sweet, kind.
[00:24:47] Uh, but the funniest detail, uh, I remember is that, uh, we were going to set, we were at this restaurant and um, she pulled up to set and gets outta the car and she's like, nah, Al's in there. Like, Al just sat in the car the entire day 'cause they were gonna go to a concert that night. So he was just out in the car.
[00:25:05] The car didn't turn around, the car didn't, like, he just sat in a parked car for maybe eight, 10 hours. And I love, like, I just love that he was there, didn't come in, didn't roll the window down. Just sat in a parked car and you check all the time. The car still out there.
[00:25:19] Jason Mantzoukas: I wonder what the concert was.
[00:25:21] Paul Scheer: It was like, for their kid, I feel like, oh, it was like, it was a, a band that both of them would not be going to normally like it, it would be the equivalent of going.
[00:25:30] Jason Mantzoukas: We're gonna seeing Vampire Weekend.
[00:25:32] Paul Scheer: Like Exactly. It felt like something very odd like that. Um, just just to give you a, um, a little sneak in, 'cause I had to Google this as we were talking. Uh, John Carpenter claimed that Chevy Chase and Darrel Hanna were the stuff of nightmares and impossible to direct. In particular, Chase would often refuse to wear his special effects makeup and would remove it prematurely. Ruining a day's worth of filming.
[00:25:58] Ed Brubaker: Oh my God.
[00:25:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow. Not surprised.
[00:26:01] Paul Scheer: Uh, I need to dig into this movie a little bit more.
[00:26:03] Ed Brubaker: But you're getting Chevy on your show, right?
[00:26:05] Paul Scheer: Oh yeah. Chevy will be on the show.
[00:26:07] Ed Brubaker: He's great at improv.
[00:26:08] Paul Scheer: He's gonna.
[00:26:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, he's so comfortable on stage.
[00:26:15] Paul Scheer: Ed, you've been out in LA a lot. Uh, and that is because, well, I mean, you've lived in this world. Yeah. Your stuff has been optioned. You are, uh, a legend in the business, but you got to be the showrunner of one of your projects for Amazon, right?
[00:26:30] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, yeah. Criminal. I, uh, God, it's been like three years it feels like since, uh, it started, but yeah. No, I, I had developed it at Legendary before the pandemic, and then, uh, a couple of the people from Legendary ended up being execs at Amazon, and so they revived it over there.
[00:26:51] Paul Scheer: Now I will say that I got to see two episodes of the show. Uh, early cuts, early cuts of the show. Yeah. And it was fantastic. You gave me a lifelong, uh, dream come true, which was, uh, you screened it for me. Can I mention the other person?
[00:27:06] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, please.
[00:27:07] Paul Scheer: Shane Black. It was amazing. It was amazing because I also a fan.
[00:27:13] Ed Brubaker: You just have the same note too, which was really annoying.
[00:27:15] Paul Scheer: Well, the, the best thing about Shane Black, I will say, as a lifelong fan of him, was he. He gave notes the way like Colombo would leave an investigation, like bag in hand,
[00:27:29] Like I'm just about out the door, turn around like, oh, and then a half an hour he was almost out the door like, well, one more thing. And then had these thoughts. But it was so funny 'cause he had the body language of someone that was leaving. But the deep smart notes of someone who was like, oh yeah, I'm cracking into this.
[00:27:47] It was, I loved watching it. I hung on every word. Uh, and I think at the beginning he might've thought that I was like an Amazon executive. So I think he was careful to understand who I was before he gave any, uh, any feedback.
[00:28:01] Ed Brubaker: I told him who you were.
[00:28:02] Paul Scheer: Alright, good. All right. Well, I'm, I am, I'm a fan. It was one of the coolest things.
[00:28:06] Ed Brubaker: That was really crazy 'cause he was mixing the Parker movie.
[00:28:10] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:28:10] Ed Brubaker: Uh, at the same time. So he was on the lot for a couple weeks at the same time as us. And Shane, you know, I met through, uh, Brian Vic and Drew Pierce a long time ago. And he's a big fan of Criminal and a big fan of my graphic novels and stuff. So we have gotten together a few times and, you know, he gives me advice about like, writing stuff and, you know, I, I consider him sort of like one of my mentors in this field to some degree.
[00:28:40] And it's great because.
[00:28:41] Paul Scheer: So much so Ed.
[00:28:43] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:28:43] Paul Scheer: That on the cover of your new Criminal book.
[00:28:46] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:28:46] Paul Scheer: The Knives. You Got a Shame Black quote right on the front. Yeah. Brubaker Phillips, uh, don't hit a wrong note.
[00:28:53] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, I was very, I was very thrilled about that.
[00:28:56] Jason Mantzoukas: There's nobody better.
[00:28:57] Ed Brubaker: I, I didn't wanna ask him for a while because I was like, ah, I gotta get to know him better before I hit him. I don't want to just. Have him think like, I really like the guy. Like he invited us to a party at his house a little while ago and we got together.
[00:29:08] Paul Scheer: Oh, whoa.
[00:29:09] Ed Brubaker: It was crazy. 'cause it was like a really big like Hollywood party, like that's in a Shane Black movie. Oh. You know? And I was just like, oh wow. Okay.
[00:29:16] Paul Scheer: You gotta say yes to the Shane Black invite. I mean, that's.
[00:29:18] Ed Brubaker: Oh yeah, totally. I, I'm probably more comfortable talking about what happen Criminal than I am about that party.
[00:29:25] Paul Scheer: You should be.
[00:29:25] Ed Brubaker: I maybe I shouldn't say I got invited.
[00:29:27] Paul Scheer: No, you could say you got invited, but I, I will say, uh, the new book, uh, the new Criminal book Knives is about this cartoonist who's going to Hollywood and the era of peak TV to work on an adaptation of his comic strip. And uh, and I'm just, I'm wondering how much of this is based on what you just told us coming to Hollywood to make criminal.
[00:29:50] Jason Mantzoukas: It. I have to say it was, I loved this book. I mean like, just to set it out, I think these books, the Criminal books are some of the great modern books.
[00:30:00] Paul Scheer: Ah, love them.
[00:30:01] Jason Mantzoukas: The Knives catches us up with some of the characters that we've been following in a bunch of other criminal stories, and so it was both great to spend time with characters that I love and that I've been spending time with for years. But then exactly to Paul's point, the Hollywood stuff was making me laugh so hard when he gets to go to town and gets to be part of the room and starts to like dress and talk differently and become a douche and then immediately gets kicked out. I was like, this is incredible.
[00:30:32] Ed Brubaker: It's, I realized after I started it, it needed to be like a kafkaesque story about a guy not becoming a cockroach, but becoming a TV writer.
[00:30:42] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:30:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:30:43] Ed Brubaker: Cause it is like a metamor decision that you can make at some point. And someone asked me how much of it was true and I was like, oh God, Jacob is always a worst case scenario character for me, like his childhood reflects a lot of pieces of my childhood, like growing up as a nerd who's like too much of an introvert, but who always wanted to be different.
[00:31:05] But like the, the emotional parts of his journey of like coming to Hollywood and, and like going from wanting to be like an individual artist to wanting to just be like a cog in the machine and, and how like every now and then you wake up and you're like, what the fuck am I doing? And like, that part of it was very real.
[00:31:24] And uh, one of the things that I didn't realize. Being the showrunner. Like, I guess I, I guess I realized because I've been in enough television now to know how much rewriting happens after the scripts are already in production or.
[00:31:39] Paul Scheer: Yeah. You've worked on some very interesting shows that without naming names, that have had a lot of restructuring after, uh, yeah.
[00:31:46] Ed Brubaker: Oh yeah. No. When we were watching episode one of Westworld, we had like a viewing party at my house of all the season one writers. Uh, our co ep on that first season, literally I had to stop her from like punching the screen. 'cause she's like, what is this? Because it was completely different than what we had done. She's like, the first 15 minutes are a completely different show.
[00:32:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Westworld a show that is famously, uh uh, went smoothly.
[00:32:11] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, it was, it was, uh, I mean I was on season one when it was, I think everyone still thinks season one is the best season of that show.
[00:32:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Absolutely.
[00:32:19] Ed Brubaker: And I learned a lot on that show.
[00:32:20] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:32:21] Ed Brubaker: But you know, like all of those scripts, we would write drafts and then the showrunners would rewrite them and, but I didn't realize how much on shows, where the showrunner isn't adding their name to things that they've literally rewritten sometimes almost every. I mean, there are some episodes of Criminal that I rewrote every single word on, and there are some where I'd only rewrote like 80% and there's like a couple where I didn't do almost anything, you know?
[00:32:45] So it was like, oh, this is just weird. But then in post you end up doing so much changing.
[00:32:51] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:32:51] Ed Brubaker: And writing and rewriting and ADR and.
[00:32:53] Paul Scheer: But that's the job, right? Like, I mean.
[00:32:55] Ed Brubaker: That's the job.
[00:32:56] Paul Scheer: You're, you're the showrunner. You're gonna do so much, uh, you know, work and. Your name will always be associated with it.
[00:33:03] Ed Brubaker: Exactly.
[00:33:03] Paul Scheer: Like no one will ever say, oh, uh, you know, like, will reference anybody else but Vince Gilligan, when you talk about Breaking Bad as far as like
[00:33:11] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:33:11] Paul Scheer: The, I mean, yes. And there were brilliant writers on there who are, you know.
[00:33:14] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. It was all great. Yeah.
[00:33:15] Paul Scheer: Yeah. But it's like.
[00:33:16] Ed Brubaker: That was a murderers row of great writers. Yeah.
[00:33:18] Paul Scheer: And the same thing for Lost. It's like that's, you'll always get that heat, but it's funny when people who are in that position opt to put their name on everything as if, uh, it, they will be forgotten or it's like, yeah, it's a weird, it's a weird choice.
[00:33:32] Ed Brubaker: It's, I gotta say, like, I've talked to a lot of showrunners about it and coming from comics, it's very weird to me not to have my name on anything I write.
[00:33:39] I have like a, a, a sort of an authorship kind of go about it. So it's just, it's a weird thing in the industry and I can kind of see it both ways where it's like, I think the problem is that the critical community that talks about television is unaware of it.
[00:33:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:33:59] Ed Brubaker: Or.
[00:33:59] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:34:00] Ed Brubaker: Even if they're unaware of it or if they're aware of it, they still feel, because so and so was listed as the writer, they want to give that person credit 'cause they don't wanna dis and I agree. Like I, you know, so it's just a, it's just a gray, it's a weird gray area, but like the showrunner is really, yeah, the voice of the show, like Criminal in the end of the day. I have credit on one episode, but that show feels more like me and my work than anything else that's ever existed. You know, and.
[00:34:27] Paul Scheer: Well it's, it's interesting 'cause it sounds like you, I think that there's a, this weird miss, like conception, like what you're saying, like when you go for the Emmys, a show is like, an episode is nominated, which I think is such a flawed concept. It should be nominate the show, right?
[00:34:42] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Paul Scheer: Not like who cares about the specific episode. It's, this is the writer's room, this is the thing. And you know, and like you said, it should be, everyone should take part in that.
[00:34:51] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:34:52] Paul Scheer: But like, 'cause a lot of the times what happens is, and I think this is the, the thing that was written about in Difficult Men, like, you know, there was a Sopranos episode that was written by a junior writer and, and, uh, and David, was it David Chase or.
[00:35:04] Ed Brubaker: David Chase, yeah.
[00:35:04] Paul Scheer: Yeah. Was like upset about it because it was like, oh, this person's out in front of this Sopranos episode. Even though it's, you gets gone, it goes through a process. It's, it's not like, you know, it's not singular.
[00:35:14] Jason Mantzoukas: I think also.
[00:35:14] Ed Brubaker: I mean famously Matt Weiner said.
[00:35:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Matt Weiner.
[00:35:17] Ed Brubaker: You've got, if you got 20% of your dialogue through a David Chase rewrite, you considered that a victory. Like if you had any dialogue in an episode of the Sopranos with your name on it, that wasn't rewritten by Chase.
[00:35:29] I mean, by the way, David Chase can rewrite anything I ever write and not put his name on it. I'd be very happy. He's my fucking hero. So I can't wait for his MK Ultra Show. No, I literally have, I have two different showrunner friends, who have watched, like people on their staff win Emmys that like, they rewrote that episode page one and, and was like, and the person didn't even thank them.
[00:35:56] And so it's like,
[00:35:57] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[00:35:57] Ed Brubaker: It's a weird, so like, but how often does that happen to you? Like once in your life? Maybe so, yeah. It's just a weird industry and it is very collaborative. So, but because of that, I think going into it, I didn't, I honestly didn't understand how much work I would do in post.
[00:36:14] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:36:14] Ed Brubaker: And I, like, by the time I was in post, it was just me.
[00:36:16] Jason Mantzoukas: That's that final draft in that way.
[00:36:18] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, it was just me. I remember when I went out to lunch with Shane, like the next day after that screening, I was saying that to him and he said, look, writing the, writing the script and making it like the script and the production. That's the ingredients, right? Like post is when you cook it.
[00:36:36] Paul Scheer: Yeah. Right.
[00:36:36] Ed Brubaker: And it's like, are you a great chef? Do you have great chefs working for you? You know, like.
[00:36:41] Paul Scheer: Well, but this is like the thing I always like that I found. 'cause as somebody who's written comics or just a very, uh, small handful of them, it was backwards. Right. Because like when you get to work in tv you, you conceive the idea then, you know, you cast people and it kind of changes and you're shooting it.
[00:36:57] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:36:57] Paul Scheer: And it kind of changes again, based on location and actors and things that happen in the moment. And then you're editing it and it happen, you know, it's like you're, you're kind of developing all the way from inception to completion. And comics, uh, or a, you know, or anything like a graphic novel is locked like you.
[00:37:13] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:37:14] Paul Scheer: You give, I mean, yes, you have your idea, but like it's gotta go all the way through the process, so I imagine.
[00:37:18] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. And it's got a deadline usually too.
[00:37:20] Paul Scheer: Yeah. I imagine that that might have been fun though, to have more time to ruminate within a specific episode, or go back, like to do reshoots, like you said.
[00:37:29] Ed Brubaker: Oh, yeah.
[00:37:29] Paul Scheer: You know, and go, oh, I could tweak that. And I didn't realize that that was something that could actually connect here. It's, that's the fun part of it, I think.
[00:37:35] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. No, I, yeah, no, I really, I loved post, honestly, like, it was, it wa it was long at times, but like my, like learning to work with my editors and, and also seeing like where like, oh.
[00:37:49] This episode isn't working. How can we fix it? And like, restructuring, like it had never occurred to me. 'Cause Rafa and I would look at the cuts and stuff and he didn't really wanna hear what I had to say about what he was doing. Like he didn't.
[00:38:03] Jason Mantzoukas: That's a, I, I would love a podcast that would never get published. That he is just you talking about working with
[00:38:09] Paul Scheer: Oh my God.
[00:38:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Nick Winding Refin,
[00:38:10] Ed Brubaker: I'm pretty sure he'd be fine with it. I, I told him that he, that I had based a bad guy in one of my books on him and he's like, oh, you should do a memoir about like our time working together that's, I could help you with it.
[00:38:22] And I'm like, yeah, Nick, you don't get to write my memoir about.
[00:38:24] Paul Scheer: That's amazing.
[00:38:25] Ed Brubaker: About our, about our crazy relationship. For three years.
[00:38:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Our show was memoir worthy.
[00:38:29] Ed Brubaker: I mean, dude. Yeah. There's so many stories from that show, and I, and they keep coming out every now and then, and it's just like, oh, wow. Yeah, that was a crazy three years of my life too. It's just, yeah. But a totally different experience than, you know, doing your own.
[00:38:44] Jason Mantzoukas: But what a sense of authorship you have over Criminal now. In a way that, do you feel like it is as close to the, the kind of work that you and Sean get to do in the, in the, yeah, in the books, basically.
[00:38:57] Ed Brubaker: I mean, I think it's as close to feeling like my books as anything. Like I've had several things like where people have tried to adapt my stuff that haven't gotten made right, and where I haven't been involved at all. And one of the things that's, that I think I've realized more as I work in Hollywood about what my, what makes my stuff, my stuff.
[00:39:21] Like I'm not saying my stuff is the greatest stuff. Like, yeah, you guys obviously think my stuff is the greatest stuff, but.
[00:39:26] Jason Mantzoukas: It's the greatest elicit.
[00:39:27] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:39:28] Jason Mantzoukas: I, and I have no problem, uh, uh, putting that out into the world.
[00:39:32] Ed Brubaker: But, but seriously, like, I think I realized in the last, like couple of years, because when other people adapt my stuff, they kind of, sometimes they miss the part that makes it me and.
[00:39:46] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:39:46] Ed Brubaker: Like what I do generally is I use genre tropes or genres to write really character driven grounded stories where the people within these tropes are acting like real people like you or me or, or people you know, where it, so you can identify with these people, but they're in this big genre story.
[00:40:08] And I also do things to subvert your expectations based on what you think would happen because of a genre. Because of the genre. So often when people are adapting my work, or have tried in the past to adapt my work into movies and stuff like Incognito, like great writers worked on Incognito, but the studios that were trying to turn that into movies didn't understand how you could do a black comedy about a super villain in witness protection. So they would constantly force them to turn it into a superhero origin story.
[00:40:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:40:38] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:40:38] Ed Brubaker: And then it's like, well, that's. Like, no, you're not gonna make a superhero origin story about somebody no one's ever heard of.
[00:40:45] Jason Mantzoukas: And they want it to be, they would rather it be the, it's what, it's, it's literally what happens to Jacob in The Knives.
[00:40:53] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:40:53] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, they take.
[00:40:54] Ed Brubaker: They want it to be generic.
[00:40:55] Jason Mantzoukas: They take the, the, the kind of Kafkaesque character that he's created in the comics of this detective who finds himself in these absurd worlds or these absurd cases, and all they wanna make out of it is just a straight PI show.
[00:41:10] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:41:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Without any of the trappings of Kafka. Yeah. You know, and then Jacob, that's the, that's the crucible that Jacob goes through in his Hollywood chapter in the Knives. And then we find him later and he's back at home, back writing, back in the basement, back drawing and writing comics.
[00:41:27] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:41:27] Jason Mantzoukas: And appears to be doing like, what's the new character? Uh, Ed. It's a Beaver.
[00:41:31] Ed Brubaker: Basel Beaver.
[00:41:32] Jason Mantzoukas: Basel Beaver. Yeah. Pri private eye. Who is, who looks like, it's like a black sad character, I feel like.
[00:41:38] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:41:40] Ed Brubaker: I don't know. That part of it really came outta nowhere. I was like, I liked the idea of him sketching and making fun of the producer of the show and uh, you know, and I just had this idea that he draws him as like some kind of a beaver.
[00:41:54] An animal.
[00:41:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:41:55] Ed Brubaker: Or a weasel or something. And he's masturbating as he is like saying something. And then I, and then I was just like, I, what if when he goes home, he just keeps drawing more funny animal things.
[00:42:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:42:04] Ed Brubaker: And then it becomes like that's his next thing. 'cause he is not gonna do Frank Kafka anymore. Cause they ruined it.
[00:42:09] Jason Mantzoukas: It's so funny. I love there's so many of your books that take place inside of Hollywood, whether it's old Hollywood
[00:42:17] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:42:17] Jason Mantzoukas: I'm thinking of Fatal or, or Yeah.
[00:42:21] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Or fa the Fade Out. Uh uh is another one. Like, and they really are like. Like re I love how much you are interested in excavating the true evil of this town.
[00:42:34] Ed Brubaker: I mean, look, when I get to like a Taylor Sheridan level of success, I'll, I'll have other things to write about.
[00:42:40] Paul Scheer: Now, are you gonna also follow him to Universal?
[00:42:45] Ed Brubaker: I mean, he doesn't get there for three years. Maybe I'll get there first.
[00:42:48] Paul Scheer: Oh yeah.
[00:42:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh wow. I would love it.
[00:42:49] Paul Scheer: That's the best. I love throwing down the gauntlet like that. Yeah. Fuck yeah.
[00:42:53] Jason Mantzoukas: I would love it if by the time Taylor Sheridan gets to Universal, you've already got Kill or be Killed and Velvet on.
[00:42:59] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. It's funny, I I'm like, wait, are we dissing him?
[00:43:03] Paul Scheer: No. No, not at all.
[00:43:04] Ed Brubaker: I love him.
[00:43:06] Paul Scheer: He's a, he, he's a guy.
[00:43:07] Jason Mantzoukas: All I want is to be on Landman.
[00:43:08] Ed Brubaker: You would be so amazing as a cartel guy on Landman.
[00:43:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Please.
[00:43:12] Ed Brubaker: You're a cartel lawyer. Come on.
[00:43:14] Paul Scheer: It's, I just started watching it. It's awesome.
[00:43:15] Ed Brubaker: Lemme text him.
[00:43:16] Paul Scheer: I like Lioness. I like all these shows. They're like, but like, it's amazing to me. Someone told me a story about him. About Tulsa King, which I loved, which was, he talked to Stallone on the phone and was like, well, what do you wanna do?
[00:43:32] And Stallone like, you know, told him, I like this, I like this. And uh, he is like, okay, got it. And then within four hours delivered a an hour long show to Stallone. He is like, all right, I'll do this like that. Like.
[00:43:45] Ed Brubaker: Well, it was a rewrite of another pilot though.
[00:43:47] Paul Scheer: Okay, got it. Okay.
[00:43:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay.
[00:43:49] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:43:50] Paul Scheer: Alright, that makes more sense.
[00:43:51] Ed Brubaker: I just heard Terry Winter is coming back on that show.
[00:43:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:43:54] Ed Brubaker: I think in the new season, Stallone was basically the showrunner.
[00:43:57] Paul Scheer: Yeah. I, uh, I had auditioned for something on there. I was very excited about it and, uh, and the word I had gotten back was, there's not really a room or a showrunner.
[00:44:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:44:07] Paul Scheer: So it's gonna, you know, I was like, I was like, oh, okay.
[00:44:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:44:11] Ed Brubaker: It is a, I mean, a lot of my crew came from Bass Reeves actually. Like.
[00:44:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, interesting.
[00:44:17] Ed Brubaker: Like my line producer had done Bass Reeves and so yeah, I had a lot. That was actually the only way we were able to get Garrett for, uh, for Teague Lawless. Uh, 'cause he's on Tulsa King. We, we had good relationships with 1 0 1 studios. We were able to like, get them to move him around a little bit. That's why that re-shoot was so crazy that Jason was part of, because.
[00:44:38] Paul Scheer: Yes, Jason, we can reveal that you are a part. Of the, uh, televised Criminal universe now.
[00:44:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah. Don't, don't if don't get it twisted everybody. I am the star of Amazon's Criminal.
[00:44:51] Ed Brubaker: It is a pivotal role. Um, yeah. Jason, Jason was part of those reshoots, but yeah, we did because of actor schedules. Now sometimes it's so crazy trying to get like, uh, I think my friend had a show and because of an actor's schedule, they had to run for like a week. They had to run four sets to be able to shoot this actor out.
[00:45:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:45:12] Ed Brubaker: For the whole show in one week.
[00:45:14] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[00:45:14] Ed Brubaker: So it was like, oh shit. Like, so yeah, when you get like, so it was like our re-shoot schedule was literally just built around being able to, oh, we only have Garrett for these two days. And, uh, so we shot two, we shot in three days. We shot seven days worth of material at two sets running.
[00:45:31] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[00:45:32] Ed Brubaker: And a second unit.
[00:45:34] Paul Scheer: I will, I will never forget, uh, when. Uh, when June's dad passed away, I was in Chicago and there was, um, there, you know, I, I couldn't get to like, it was a, a timing thing, right? My flight was gonna leave at, uh, 11 o'clock at night to get to New York and I was on this independent movie and they knew that if they lost me for like these four days, it would kind of screw up things.
[00:46:01] The way that they maneuvered that one day to shoot five days of work into this one long day. And I made my flight. It was something I will never forget. I was like, holy shit. Like when like we, I mean 'cause it like it was a big deal. You know.
[00:46:16] Ed Brubaker: Amazing.
[00:46:17] Paul Scheer: It was truly, uh, an an epic feat where like, things are changing, set dressing is going, I'm getting like appliances put on me. It was, it was really impressive. And you know, it's not ideal obviously, but it's amazing when, when you can make those choices, I think in a weird way too. You become looser. You can't hold onto anything. You, you're like, all right, we're just going, we're gonna get this thing. And maybe you find something cool in that moment too.
[00:46:40] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, no, I love that. I loved the production and yeah, the, I mean, being a showrunner is a really, really fucking hard job with a lot of, I, the, the parts that I didn't like about the job or just the frustrating parts of the waiting or the having to deal with too many people's opinions about a thing. But like the working with the actors and the crew and the directors and like, I, you know, I directed like the second unit for our reshoots because like I had given up the idea that I wanted to direct.
[00:47:10] I originally came to Hollywood 'cause I wanted to write and direct like, and um, you know, I got to sit next to D Reese on an Apple box for. Three months.
[00:47:19] Paul Scheer: Whoa.
[00:47:19] Ed Brubaker: And it was like the best film school ever. And like my camera operator, Matt Moriarty, is like one of the best steady cam operators in the world. And you know, I just worked with these like world class like actors and crew and you know.
[00:47:34] Paul Scheer: Well that's the thing. The show looks amazing.
[00:47:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:47:36] Paul Scheer: And it's big. It's a big fucking show. It's, and I feel like that's the thing that I was really. I not shocked at, but like, you know, I think sometimes when, you know, it's a streaming show, you see where the seams are like, or the cuts.
[00:47:51] Ed Brubaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:51] Paul Scheer: Like, you know, we're talking about John Carpenter not wanting to shoot action. And you see like, sometimes shows will move away from that. Every now and then they'll, they'll really lean in. But this is a show that feels like a movie. It feels, yeah. Like it has all those things that we know from big budget. Uh, you know, it just has a, a pace and a tone and energy. It's great.
[00:48:08] Jason Mantzoukas: I think what's also great about Criminal specifically is both in book form and now in your adaptation. These are, the scale and scope of these stories is massive. The books take place over the last 50 years.
[00:48:26] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. 70 now. Yeah.
[00:48:27] Jason Mantzoukas: 70 now. Okay. Oh yeah. 'cause now we've caught up to modern. Modern because.
[00:48:30] Ed Brubaker: Dead in the dying starts in like 1952 or something.
[00:48:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Okay. So, so what's crazy is you are constantly pushing us through time, not only with these characters who we visit at different times in their lives, but we're also following these characters families.
[00:48:48] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:48:48] Jason Mantzoukas: As we're ca we're following father, it's, I mean, so much of it is fathers and sons, right?
[00:48:52] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:48:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, both on the, the the criminal side. Mothers and daughters. Um, and.
[00:48:57] Paul Scheer: By the way, can I give you my, be my best note? I was pitching a show, uh, a movie actually to again, giant person. And, uh, and I, and it was a comedy and it was about a father and son, and the person stopped me in the middle of the pitch and said, I gotta stop you.
[00:49:14] There's never been anything, uh, funny about a father and son relationship. And I was like, oh, uh, thank you. I get, uh oh. Sure. I, it was the craziest note I've ever gotten and easily, uh, disputable. But it was, it was, but.
[00:49:31] Ed Brubaker: Like, I mean, I'm just gonna go to a show I hate, Frazier. That's funny.
[00:49:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, how do you hate f? Wait a minute. Wait, how are you hating Frazier, Ed? What are you talking about?
[00:49:41] Ed Brubaker: I'm just mad at him, 'cause I was in love with Lilith.
[00:49:45] Paul Scheer: Oh wow.
[00:49:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, of course, of course.
[00:49:47] Paul Scheer: For you to come, for you to come that way to it. Oh my Lord, I love it.
[00:49:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.
[00:49:52] Paul Scheer: Uh, well, guys, I'm so sorry. I have to run, uh, to go, uh, work on that movie about the father and son, uh, which is now a very serious drama. Uh, all right, I'll let you guys take it away.
[00:50:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, okay. We've lost Paul, which is great because now Ed and I, we can just talk about comics. Because Ed, I feel like there's been a long time, correct me if I'm wrong, where a bunch of these books have been out of print or difficult to find. And now they are back or they are coming back.
[00:50:20] Ed Brubaker: I think it's just been. Yeah, I think it's just been that they've been, they haven't been out a print, but but yeah, no, I reprinted all the Criminal books. Sean did these new designs and new covers, so they're all branded and, and I, I forced him to redesign the whole thing so that we would have these brand spanking new additions ready for when the show debuts. And, and, uh, that's been fun to deal with.
[00:50:41] Jason Mantzoukas: And these are books that if you have not yet gotten, I cannot recommend them enough. These are stories that are so fantastic and have been unfolding now for decades.
[00:50:52] Ed Brubaker: 20 years. Yeah.
[00:50:53] Jason Mantzoukas: 20 years, right?
[00:50:53] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:50:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, but not only, I, I know we're talking a lot about Criminal. I feel like you've got a new volume of the Friday books, Collected.
[00:51:00] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:51:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Which I think is.
[00:51:01] Ed Brubaker: We've got the Big Friday deluxe hardback coming out.
[00:51:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Which, or this was one of my
[00:51:05] Ed Brubaker: A week or two.
[00:51:05] Jason Mantzoukas: My favorite things that you did in recent years, um, that I feel like I was, I caught by surprise when you started doing it because it was one of the books that was launched as an online only book that has now migrated to physical copies.
[00:51:20] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:51:20] Jason Mantzoukas: And it's you and is it Marco Martine, who did?
[00:51:23] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. Marcos Martine.
[00:51:24] Jason Mantzoukas: The absolutely genius. Marcus Mar. Marcos Martine.
[00:51:27] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:51:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Um. This book is incredible. And is this as close to an all ages book as you get?
[00:51:34] Ed Brubaker: I think so. I mean, there's fucking and swearing, but, um.
[00:51:37] Jason Mantzoukas: I guess so. Yeah.
[00:51:38] Ed Brubaker: But it's, I mean, I would give it to a 14 teenager, 14 year up.
[00:51:43] I. I stupidly thought my friend, my friend Tom, who is a, is a writer director I was working with on a movie a couple years ago, had, uh, I wanna say an eight and a 10-year-old. And I thought they, they, they're really interested in comics and I said, look, look through this and blank out all the swearing and stuff.
[00:52:04] And I forgot about the monsters. And one of them brought one of them to school and got sent home. Oh no. Yeah, they got sent home from school. They were having like a little bit of a panic attack, so.
[00:52:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh my God.
[00:52:15] Ed Brubaker: Eight might be too young.
[00:52:17] Jason Mantzoukas: I got my nieces, I got all my nieces t-shirts, I had them custom made t-shirts that just said poop on them. And I, and I was like, I, I was very clear just to save their parents the headaches. I was like, these are only for at home.
[00:52:30] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:52:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Only these are at home shirts. Okay. Everybody was excited, but one of like a 10-year-old snuck it into school and changed at school and then got in trouble and so everybody got in trouble.
[00:52:42] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:52:42] Jason Mantzoukas: And it was really juicy. I loved it. I loved it.
[00:52:45] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. No, that's the kind of uncle I like to be too.
[00:52:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Classic uncle shit.
[00:52:48] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I'm not a dad, so I'm the, I'm the uncle who's like, why is uncle Ed outside smoking pot? It's like, because he doesn't have kids.
[00:52:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, the best. I also wanna shout out the one of my favorite series that you've been doing in recent years are the Reckless books.
[00:53:05] Ed Brubaker: Oh, yeah.
[00:53:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Which are a series of like pi not, I mean, if I was talking about it as a TV show, I would say Case of the Week. These are, these are books. These are pulpy, yeah. You know, pulpy re quick read books that are just a single case. They're not as sprawling as the the Criminal stories are, or some of the ones that have these long tail effects into other books. The Reckless books though, they have, they relate to each other. They are very, they are very concise in a lot of ways. Yeah. And they're great.
[00:53:34] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. The first five of 'em cover the eighties basically.
[00:53:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:53:38] Ed Brubaker: They go from like 1981 to like 1989 or something. And Yeah.
[00:53:43] Jason Mantzoukas: And for guys our age for middle aged guys, it is the sweet spot of PI stories in that it is a Vietnam vet who is down on his luck, who now owns a movie theater in downtown LA and just show, it's like, all I want is to live inside of these stories.
[00:54:02] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. It's very much my, I made a list of like the things, 'cause if you have a recurring detective character, you have to give them like these eccentric things that like, so I was like, what would I want if I. Been holding onto that idea for like 20 years of like a main character who lived in a movie theater.
[00:54:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Great.
[00:54:21] Ed Brubaker: And just, but didn't let people in.
[00:54:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:54:24] Ed Brubaker: Like it's just.
[00:54:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[00:54:25] Ed Brubaker: It's, this is my movie theater. He's like sitting in there with just him and his assistant watching movies and it's like, yeah, no, this place is a pa this is my holy spot. Like, no. And yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, my friend Duffy and I, um, who was, uh, on Barry and is like the number two on the low down. We're, we're currently adapting that as a movie for Amazon, that Sebastian Stan is attached to star.
[00:54:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Incredible. Thank God, because that's something that I've asked you multiple times.
[00:54:51] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:54:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, to let me, uh, adapt. And you have said no, I'm doing it.
[00:54:56] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:54:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, and it is one of my all time favorite books and one of my favorite all time, uh, ongoing series rather. And I cannot wait to see it adapt. And I think it's an incredible series. Um, I wanna ask you about, I. I've asked you this before, but I'm gonna ask you again. Um, because when you publish books in, in single issues.
[00:55:18] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:55:18] Jason Mantzoukas: You always put in back matter.
[00:55:21] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:55:21] Jason Mantzoukas: You always put in, at the end of every issue will be a, an essay about a film. Yeah. A usually films a series of essays, uh, across the run of a book that are speaking that are you have a friend or.
[00:55:34] Ed Brubaker: They're thematic.
[00:55:35] Jason Mantzoukas: That are, yes. That are related to the book that you're reading, the movies that relate to the, or sometimes you'll publish the music that you've been listening to or whatever, but, but especially to me, I've found so many great movie recommendations on those nights where I'm like, what do I wanna watch?
[00:55:52] I have a list in my phone that are like the movie recommendations.
[00:55:56] Ed Brubaker: Oh, wow.
[00:55:56] Jason Mantzoukas: From the. From the back of Ed Brubaker books.
[00:56:00] Ed Brubaker: That's funny.
[00:56:00] Jason Mantzoukas: And that's like real stuff. So like, where does that live anywhere? Do, because you've, you've fastidiously will not put it, uh, anywhere but those books to incentivize people to buy single issues, I think in a great way.
[00:56:15] Ed Brubaker: I mean, it was partly to incentivize people, but partly to just make the single issues something special. But the thing is, like a lot of those, I, I mean, I wrote a lot of 'em at the, at first, and then I started having friends write them. Like my friend Jess Nevins wrote a lot of the ones that are about pulp history, and then Devin Farci wrote a bunch of 'em and, you know, and then he got canceled. And, um, and then, uh, Kim, uh, Morgan took over for a long time, for years writing them, and like, I just paid everybody like a flat fee to, for like one time printing rights.
[00:56:53] Jason Mantzoukas: I see.
[00:56:53] Ed Brubaker: So like the only thing we own officially is the, um, the, the art that Sean did for the essays.
[00:57:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.
[00:57:02] Ed Brubaker: So to be able to do like a printed collection of all of them, I would need to, to
[00:57:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Go back and.
[00:57:09] Ed Brubaker: It's like, I've gotta get patent and you know.
[00:57:11] Jason Mantzoukas: I get it.
[00:57:12] Ed Brubaker: There's some people are dead now who wrote some of them and it's like, I can't get a waiver signed by them. Like I've thought maybe put up all of them on like a website because.
[00:57:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:21] Ed Brubaker: Then it's like no one's making money off of it. And maybe that's. Maybe that's a way around it. I think everyone would be happy if I printed a book with them.
[00:57:29] I think the people who wrote them would probably be happy. The reason I didn't do them in the books originally was 'cause I didn't want to detract from the books.
[00:57:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:57:37] Ed Brubaker: And I wanted,
[00:57:38] Jason Mantzoukas: I get that.
[00:57:38] Ed Brubaker: People to just, 'cause you don't get to the end of a crime novel and have like an essay about, you know, Night of the Hunter by your, by the author's friend. You know?
[00:57:47] Jason Mantzoukas: And but boy does it also give us incredible Sean Phillips, like Robert Mitcham, Lee Marvin, like I love.
[00:57:53] Ed Brubaker: Well Sean started doing those and then got hired by Criterion almost immediately.
[00:57:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:57:58] Ed Brubaker: He did Like Sweet Smile success.
[00:58:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep.
[00:58:00] Ed Brubaker: Blast of silence. Because he did that illustration for Blast of Silence in the back of our, uh, comic when Patton wrote about it.
[00:58:09] And then Criterion like our, one of our readers is like the art director of Criterion. And so Criterion optioned that movie and hired Sean to do like a whole comic book, adapting the opening sequence and do the, and do a new painted cover. And it's like, so I was like, wow. An article in the back of a Criminal by Pat Oswald got Criterion to release a movie that was.
[00:58:32] Jason Mantzoukas: Isn't that unreal.
[00:58:32] Ed Brubaker: That was the most influential movie on Martin Scorsese that no one had ever heard of, you know?
[00:58:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Incredible, incredible.
[00:58:38] Ed Brubaker: And I only love that know about that movie because Patton told me about it. Like I, that's the thing I miss about the, the single issues. Is that part of it, like the building of the community?
[00:58:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:58:49] Ed Brubaker: And I do kind of miss.
[00:58:50] Jason Mantzoukas: That resource.
[00:58:50] Ed Brubaker: Only doing graphic novels. Yeah. We have a, next month we have a, uh, a, it's called Giant Size Criminal number one, and it's just like a big 48 page criminal one shot. I think it comes out like the first week of December in comic stores.
[00:59:06] And it's print only, comic stores only. And I wanted to really reward the comic stores and like sort of incentivize them to know, nobody can get this anywhere but at you. So buy a lot of them please.
[00:59:18] Jason Mantzoukas: And this is, yeah, and this is like, really find your local store, go buy it. This is not like, and you've done this before, you know, did I think you did this with maybe Cruel Summer? Did you?
[00:59:29] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[00:59:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Or.
[00:59:30] Ed Brubaker: Yeah, I, well, when I put out hardbacks, I don't do digital versions until the paperback.
[00:59:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:59:34] Ed Brubaker: So, because it's like, uh, you can't get a hardback book on your Kindle, you know?
[00:59:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:59:39] Ed Brubaker: It's like I noticed like Dan Klaus and Chris Ware books are not available at all digitally. And I'm like, yeah, because it's a re, part of the experience is holding it in your hand and reading.
[00:59:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:59:49] Ed Brubaker: But like in that single issue I got, um, Kieran Gillen, my friend Kieran is like a big comic book writer and game guy. And I got him to write a criminal RPG module so that Sean illustrated. So there's like great a Criminal game that you and your friends can play with a deck of cards and a table. You can imagine you're sitting in the under toe post heist trying to.
[01:00:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I love this.
[01:00:11] Ed Brubaker: Trying to fucking back stab each other and dealing with a game master and.
[01:00:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that's cool as hell.
[01:00:16] Ed Brubaker: So Kieran wrote that whole thing for me and Sean illustrated, so that's like our, one of our extras in this big 48 page thing. And then I wrote like a sort of intro to who, the, who all, who the world and characters of criminal and you know, so it was like fun to do that.
[01:00:29] So I think we may, you know, try and do that stuff once in a while just 'cause I just like, you know, being able to create like, fun art objects that really create a community. You know?
[01:00:40] Jason Mantzoukas: And I think you are, you also are constantly working with a list of collaborators who I think really reward that.
[01:00:48] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[01:00:48] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, like even what you did with, um, are they called the martini editions?
[01:00:53] Ed Brubaker: Oh yeah. The Martini Editions.
[01:00:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Uh, these are the adaptations of the Parker books that Darwin Cook did that they then published in large format.
[01:01:02] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[01:01:02] Jason Mantzoukas: That you, I feel like were very involved in shepherding into existence. Am I misrepresenting that?
[01:01:07] Ed Brubaker: I mean, I was. I was part of their PR campaign a little bit, I think.
[01:01:11] 'cause I, I wanted to sort of champion that. 'cause Darwin had always really wanted to do those.
[01:01:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[01:01:17] Ed Brubaker: And so when they put out the first one, we did like a big round table interview. Me, him and the editor, Scott Dunbar and, uh, Tom, uh, Spurgeon, who died a few years back. Uh, sadly one of my best friends. Um, and then in the second martini edition, Darwin had passed away, like really tragically. And suddenly. I found out he was sick the day, like before he died.
[01:01:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh wow.
[01:01:41] Ed Brubaker: So, yeah, it was, uh, it was.
[01:01:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I didn't know it was so sudden.
[01:01:44] Ed Brubaker: It, it, it wasn't as, it was a, it was a few months I think.
[01:01:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[01:01:48] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. You know, but it was, it was a thing where everybody thought he was getting better and then he suddenly took a turn, it sounds like.
[01:01:55] But, um, but so for that book, like Sean and I oversaw that book, like editing
[01:02:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Got it.
[01:02:01] Ed Brubaker: And Sean designed it, and then we did a new original story for the end of it. Like, and I felt too weird writing a Parker story. So I wrote a Feld story about Parker and about Missing Parker, right. As like a tribute to Westlake and to Darwin.
[01:02:18] And, but I, because of that. I had to, I have the unique distinction of being the, one of the only people ever to get permission to write an original Parker story by Donald Westlake's widow. And I had to write the story first and submit it.
[01:02:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, interesting. That makes sense. Uh, and we've come full circle. Uh, Shane Black's new movie Play Dirty is an adaptation of one of the Parker books.
[01:02:43] Ed Brubaker: I think it's like. I think it takes two or three pieces from different ones. And then it, to me, that movie, I, I really liked that movie. I thought it was a lot of fun, but I felt like it felt like a weird mishmash between a Richard Stark Parker, but also a little bit like one of the Feld books and but also about 50% like a Shane Black movie.
[01:03:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[01:03:06] Ed Brubaker: You know, and it was.
[01:03:08] Jason Mantzoukas: And that's very clearly what I feel like it is. When it wasn't Parker, it felt Shane Black.
[01:03:13] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. And it was like, and I think that that was like one of those ones where like, the parts that I like the most about it, I think are the things that the critics maybe didn't like. Like people don't understand Parker as a character at all.
[01:03:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Not at all.
[01:03:25] Ed Brubaker: Not at all. Yeah. They do not. They do not.
[01:03:27] Jason Mantzoukas: They want him to be likable.
[01:03:28] Ed Brubaker: They want him to talk about his feelings and have.
[01:03:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Not at all. Never. He is never gonna do that.
[01:03:33] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. I told Shane, I was like, this is one of the best portrayals of Parker since Lee Marvin. Honestly, because.
[01:03:38] Jason Mantzoukas: This, this stoic asshole.
[01:03:40] Ed Brubaker: Yeah. But that's what people don't get. They're like, oh, they want, and it's like maybe Wahlberg, who's usually. Such a charismatic guy. Usually very funny in things like I always think of him and the other guys and.
[01:03:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[01:03:54] Ed Brubaker: You know, and uh, and the daddy movies.
[01:03:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep. Yeah. Daddy.
[01:03:58] Ed Brubaker: Like all his stuff with Will Ferrell is what I think of. And I, you know, I love those and
[01:04:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[01:04:03] Ed Brubaker: So seeing him as Parker, I was like, honestly, I was relieved that it wasn't Downey because I couldn't imagine a version of Downey as Parker because he.
[01:04:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Downey wants, he wants to be liked so much.
[01:04:13] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[01:04:13] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, and that's not Parker.
[01:04:15] Ed Brubaker: No. Down, I mean, Downey's one of the best actors in the world. I mean, kiss Kiss Bang Bang is still.
[01:04:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Incredible.
[01:04:20] Ed Brubaker: You know.
[01:04:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Incredible.
[01:04:21] Ed Brubaker: That movie.
[01:04:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Because he's perfect for Shane.
[01:04:23] Ed Brubaker: Yeah.
[01:04:24] Jason Mantzoukas: I feel like he's perfect for Shane Black.
[01:04:25] Ed Brubaker: But I remember when he was listed, I was like, oh no, that's.
[01:04:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[01:04:29] Ed Brubaker: He should be Brofeld the guy who talks too much and is an actor.
[01:04:32] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[01:04:32] Ed Brubaker: And it's like flamboyant and stuff like, but Shane was like, no, he wants to do like a Lee Marvin. And I was like, oh, cool. Well, let's see it. And then of course it, you know, he, he didn't do it and they Wahlberg instead and Wahlberg's really does sort of closer. Yeah. He's closer. He's very like tightlipped and tough. Yeah. And you know, so I felt like it was a, it was a really good Parker, but then when I was looking at some of the reviews the first day, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop reading these, cause.
[01:04:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. I didn't read.
[01:04:57] Ed Brubaker: It's like, it's like the same thing when like, the guy who's the, who's the like main critic for the Times doesn't understand what a show runner does. You know, you're just kinda like, okay, so you don't dunno anything about Parker, but you're gonna review this movie. So, okay. Yeah. But that's, that's the, that's, it's, that's where we are. That's the industry. That's where we are.
[01:05:12] Jason Mantzoukas: That's where we are.
[01:05:13] Ed Brubaker: But I just, um, am hoping that we get like another nice guys movie or something. 'Cause I just feel like great, the Nice Guys is a movie that gets better every time I watch it.
[01:05:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Gimme more. Give me more of that. Absolutely. Well, I, I'm being told we gotta wrap up.
[01:05:25] Ed Brubaker: All right.
[01:05:25] Jason Mantzoukas: And I could literally talk about this for the next two hours. Um, you're one of the greats. Thanks for making the time.
[01:05:31] Ed Brubaker: Thank you.
[01:05:31] Jason Mantzoukas: And I cannot thank you enough for having me on Criminal. It was the thrill of a lifetime to spend two hours in makeup, having bruises and cuts applied to my body looking like someone had beaten the shit out of me.
[01:05:47] Ed Brubaker: It is a pivotal role.
[01:05:48] Paul Scheer: Thank you again, Ed, for joining us now. It is the moment you've all been waiting for. It is time to announce our next movie. Next week we'll be going from a slow moving train to a zombie craving brains. Ooh, I love that. That's right. We'll be watching the 1993 Teen Horror Romcom.
[01:06:04] My Boyfriend's Back, the movie stars Andrew Lowry and Tracy Lind with an A plus supporting performance by Edward Herman. Mary Beth hurt Matthew Fox and an unhinged Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yes, you don't wanna miss this one. The IMDB breakdown of the plot says
[01:06:18] "A teenage boy comes back from the dead because he's determined to win the most beautiful girl in school."
[01:06:22] Here's a thing, he's not her boyfriend and Jason and June loved this movie, so, uh, are they right? Are they wrong? Well, rotten Tomatoes gives this movie a 13%, and Ty Burr from Entertainment Weekly says,
[01:06:35] "My boyfriend's back is obviously aiming for the subversive high school yucks of 1989 Heathers. But the storyline never bothers to make sense."
[01:06:43] Which honestly I agree with.
[01:06:44] Listen to the trailer.
[01:06:47] Trailer Audio: They say you only get one chance at life. But for childhood sweethearts, Missy and Johnny, true love will never die.
[01:06:57] He came back from the dead for me.
[01:06:59] He's a stinking zombie, you idiot.
[01:07:00] He may be dead.
[01:07:01] Brett.
[01:07:02] But his heart still beats for the girl that he loves.
[01:07:05] I would love to go to the prom with you.
[01:07:07] Pretty damn active for a dead guy.
[01:07:09] My boyfriend's back rated PG 13.
[01:07:11] Paul Scheer: You can rent My Boyfriend's Back on Apple tv, Amazon Prime Video, and Fandango at home. Separately, I encourage you to check out Hoopla, canopy, and Libby, which are digital media services offered by your local library that allow you to consume tv, movies, music, audiobooks, and eBooks, and comics for free.
[01:07:27] Alright, that's it for Last Looks. If you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please rate and review us. Please, uh, make sure that you are following us and have automatic downloads turned on. It helps the show and we appreciate it. Visit us on social media at @HDTGM and a big thank you to our producer Scott Sonne and Molly Reynolds, our engineer, Casey Holford, and our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum, as well as our intern Quinn Jennings.
[01:07:48] We'll see you next week for My Boyfriend's Back.