Val Kilmer, LL Cool J, and Christian Slater star in Renny Harlin's 2004 thriller Mindhunters—a movie about FBI serial killer profilers who act like the worst people in an escape room. Paul, Jason, and June break down how these profilers don't use any of their profiling skills, Christian Slater's death by Rube Goldberg nitrogen murder machine, the logic behind the training island, if Johnny Lee Miller was assaulted by a clock, June's desire for more fun Navy antics, and so much more. Plus, Paul drops a new sad childhood story about his LL Cool J album.
Val Kilmer, LL Cool J, and Christian Slater star in Renny Harlin's 2004 thriller Mindhunters—a movie about FBI serial killer profilers who act like the worst people in an escape room. Paul, Jason, and June break down how these profilers don't use any of their profiling skills, Christian Slater's death by Rube Goldberg nitrogen murder machine, the logic behind the training island, if Johnny Lee Miller was assaulted by a clock, June's desire for more fun Navy antics, and so much more. Plus, Paul drops a new sad childhood story about his LL Cool J album.
[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: What is the movie? Where does it stream? What is the movie? Where does it stream? We saw Mindhunters, so you know what that means.
[00:00:09] Music: [Intro Song]
[00:00:09] Paul Scheer: Hello people of Earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I'm your host, Paul Scheer. Today we are talking about the 2005 Renny Harlan directed action film, Mindhunters. Now, in case you didn't watch, this is what you need to know.
[00:00:22] There is this FBI instructor played by Val Kilmer, who's evaluating new recruits to join a serial killer profiler team. And here's the thing, uh, Val Kilmer's methods, uh, a little unorthodox, uh, often includes creating very realistic simulations of murder scenes using, uh, like sets and props and, and even actors.
[00:00:40] And for the final test, uh, the group is brought to a remote island for a simulation training. However, once they are there, they realize that they are being hunted by a serial killer who might be someone that they actually know. Could it be LL Cool J, a last minute edition to the team who was sent along to just observe?
[00:01:00] We will soon find out, but let's not get into any of that before we introduce my co-host, please welcome June Diane Raphael and Jason Mantzoukas, how are you both?
[00:01:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. I mean, it does, I'm, I'm worried. Is this podcast episode a test? Is this a test?
[00:01:18] June Diane Raphael: A simulation?
[00:01:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Or is it a trap?
[00:01:21] Paul Scheer: Okay, this is.
[00:01:23] June Diane Raphael: What time is it? Is what I need to know.
[00:01:26] Jason Mantzoukas: More clocks, please.
[00:01:28] Paul Scheer: This is a movie that infuriates me on so many levels because very much like Law Abiding Citizen June, which you were not, uh, a present for a movie where there's a lot of traps and a lot of things, and you have to be like, how did this all come together? I'm gonna put some of that on the side and just focus on the opening, which you see this man.
[00:01:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, incredible.
[00:01:48] Paul Scheer: Approaching a car in the middle of winter and his hand touches, you know, the hood and we see like a, a masked glove, like by the woman's face looking as if like, uh oh. This, this is a bad guy. It's a bad guy and it's just Christian Slater. And we're like, okay, well that's gonna pay off. Like that creepy moment should definitely pay off.
[00:02:10] It doesn't. Uh, and but now I'm gonna put that on the side and go. Now we're just in the real world. I wanna make sure I'm clear on this with you both.
[00:02:19] June Diane Raphael: Okay.
[00:02:19] Paul Scheer: We're in the real world. We are interviewing real people. 'cause we're on the road. We're in the middle of the forest. We believe that we're in, we're, we're in the world.
[00:02:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, I mean, yeah, that, that's what the mo here's really like, once you start pulling at the threads, this thing, this falls apart.
[00:02:41] June Diane Raphael: God, so quickly.
[00:02:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Because, you know, the entire cold open of the movie is this very high stakes, high tension thriller kind of beginning where.
[00:02:52] Paul Scheer: The end of silence of the lambs, like that kind of energy.
[00:02:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Or Seven or something like that.
[00:02:56] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:02:56] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, like one of these kind of, we're gonna find the serial killer and then they find the house. They go in, they find they can hear the girls, the kidnapped girls. They, they, they're there. Uh, blah, blah, blah. They do all of it all the way through. Both of them being killed, Christian Slater and, um.
[00:03:14] Paul Scheer: His partner, um.
[00:03:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Catherine Morris. They are the only two people who, um, uh, they are, they don't wait for backup. They go barging right in. And boy oh boy, do they get killed.
[00:03:25] Paul Scheer: They get killed in such a crazy way because also I will say the way it's shot, I was writing down all these jokes like, oh, well this is a haunted house. It looks like a haunted house.
[00:03:33] Like it looks like something that I've paid $40 to walk through and have people jump out at me. Uh, and, but I also was like, what am I seeing? I can't see anything. Like the camera angle was obscuring enough stuff. I was like, is that person, did he shoot himself in the head? Are those girls like dummies or are they real?
[00:03:48] I couldn't quite, and I was getting irritated.
[00:03:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:03:50] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:03:50] Paul Scheer: Only to reveal. It was all set.
[00:03:52] June Diane Raphael: It was all, yeah. And, oh God, so many questions. It's very hard in a movie like this 'cause you have to hang on to just what are the truths that you know, and like what are what, what is, what can I hold onto to orient myself and to come back to over and over.
[00:04:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:04:09] June Diane Raphael: One of the things that I feel like was, was important towards the amount of flies around a serial killer's, you know, area.
[00:04:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:04:19] June Diane Raphael: A serial killer's work. Lots of flies.
[00:04:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Oh, and not just the, the flies, but the sound of the flies.
[00:04:25] June Diane Raphael: The sound of the flies. That was very important.
[00:04:28] Paul Scheer: I would've loved to have seen, uh, a moment because we do see Val Kimer breaking down the scene. Once it's revealed, it's all set. Uh, dealing with like the fly wrangler, you know, like, guys, it was good. It was too much on the flies, we get a, a few.
[00:04:41] June Diane Raphael: Oh, so roughly now I understand, we will get to the island in which the Navy uses it for simulation purposes. The all sorts of like ops are there.
[00:04:50] Paul Scheer: Right, we're talking about Omega?
[00:04:52] June Diane Raphael: That's right. But that's, that's fine. That's an island. But this is a place, I guess outside of Virginia, is in Virginia somewhere where we.
[00:04:58] Paul Scheer: It felt it was. It felt like it was on a Hollywood set. Like, and I say that not like, you know.
[00:05:02] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:05:02] Paul Scheer: Like the way that they had control of the lighting and everything, it.
[00:05:05] June Diane Raphael: I was like it, I guess I just is wondering like, roughly how much does that cost?
[00:05:10] Jason Mantzoukas: It, it, it, it's gotta be a staggering amount just to produce. The escape room that Christian Slater and Catherine Morris have to go through must have cost millions of dollars.
[00:05:22] June Diane Raphael: That's what I'm wondering. Millions of dollars.
[00:05:24] Jason Mantzoukas: 'Cause I wanna just go back when you're talking about the flies and how important it is that the flies are buzzing around the corpses and the dead people. You see someone go and turn off the tape player that is playing the fly, the flies sound effect.
[00:05:37] June Diane Raphael: Sound effect. Yeah.
[00:05:38] Jason Mantzoukas: So it's all, it all falls apart.
[00:05:40] June Diane Raphael: Like it's so immersive.
[00:05:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Exactly.
[00:05:41] Paul Scheer: The, the cake is real. I mean, 'cause Val Kilmer does, as he's chewing them out, is eating a piece of cake that was left on the table where this serial killer, I guess.
[00:05:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Guaranteed that was an improv from Val.
[00:05:50] Paul Scheer: Oh.
[00:05:50] June Diane Raphael: But absolutely. But like, that's a, you know, we're tax paying citizens, like that's FBI's funded by our tax. Like that's millions of dollars.
[00:05:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, that's like sending Cash Patel to the Olympics.
[00:06:02] Paul Scheer: Now.
[00:06:02] June Diane Raphael: It's like, what are we doing?
[00:06:04] Paul Scheer: But here's the thing, I want to go back one step on I I, because I guess I just have to leave out the fact that they were in the middle of the wilderness interviewing subjects. It's like, so in this world. They had to find this house, like that's part of the mission.
[00:06:20] June Diane Raphael: Think so.
[00:06:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:06:20] Paul Scheer: Okay. So, okay, I'll buy that. But they are training to be, um, profilers, like profilers.
[00:06:26] June Diane Raphael: Which is a I know where you're going with this, Paul, which is the same question I had.
[00:06:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:06:31] Paul Scheer: Okay. Go for it. Tell me.
[00:06:32] June Diane Raphael: Well, yeah. Okay. So, so to be an FBI profiler and, and I don't know that much about this, but I'll speak on it anyway. It seems like you have to be doing some deep psychological work.
[00:06:42] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:06:42] June Diane Raphael: Lots of research.
[00:06:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:44] June Diane Raphael: Lots of like, how does the human mind work? You were way past Psych 1 0 1, we're really, you know, we're on message boards about young white men who are categorically, usually serial killers. We are, we are doing that type of work. We are not doing the tactical.
[00:07:02] Paul Scheer: Nope.
[00:07:02] June Diane Raphael: Sort of.
[00:07:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Knocking on doors.
[00:07:04] June Diane Raphael: Knocking on doors.
[00:07:05] Jason Mantzoukas: They, they're not knocking on doors.
[00:07:07] June Diane Raphael: No. We're, we're not clearing rooms.
[00:07:10] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:07:10] June Diane Raphael: That's not our area.
[00:07:11] Paul Scheer: And it seemed to be that Val Kilmer's biggest issue was with their tactical prowess.
[00:07:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:07:17] Paul Scheer: Not their, not their.
[00:07:19] June Diane Raphael: Ability to profile.
[00:07:21] Movie Audio: Special Agent Moore. When is the situation secure?
[00:07:26] On the drive home.
[00:07:27] On the drive home. That's right. On the drive home.
[00:07:31] Sir, we did.
[00:07:32] Shut up. Cigarettes on the table. More at the door. Different brands. Two cars up front, four place settings. Not three. All should have alerted you to the possibility that there might be another suspect.
[00:07:46] I think, uh.
[00:07:46] Sorry, what? What did you say?
[00:07:52] I think you enjoy watching us fail, sir.
[00:07:56] Better in here than out there. You know, this really happened. The un sub was apprehended under two minutes without a shot fired, took you guys seven minutes and he killed your partner.
[00:08:07] Paul Scheer: Here's the thing, what they failed to do was not profile, but just not take in all the information. Like, oh, didn't you see there's.
[00:08:16] June Diane Raphael: That seems like a different skillset.
[00:08:17] Paul Scheer: Four plates on the table.
[00:08:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:08:19] Paul Scheer: That's all it was.
[00:08:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Were bringing like a, like a homicide department ju just like cops clearing rooms going through, looking for clues.
[00:08:25] June Diane Raphael: So he also wanted them to be a SWAT team. Like, I don't think that any of these skills transfer to, to profiler.
[00:08:32] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:08:32] Paul Scheer: No. I mean it, by the way, I'm gonna say this.
[00:08:35] Jason Mantzoukas: They're all bad.
[00:08:36] Paul Scheer: In, in a movie where the main idea is there is a killer amongst them and they have to profile each other. This movie fails at that.
[00:08:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:08:45] Paul Scheer: These are the dumbest motherfuckers that never use any bit of information and even in the big end reveal, which we'll get to eventually, but it's not even like, oh, I profiled him. She basically just marked him with paint.
[00:08:56] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, it's, it's really similar to, it's like, it's like a horror movie that's happening. It's like a group of teenagers who happen into a house full of traps, right? Like they are, they are acting with the same kind of chaotic, uh, we don't know what to do, uh, that teenagers would, but they are meant to be the best of the best.
[00:09:17] And they, they don't work together. They don't use their brains, they don't use their skill sets to the best of their abilities. They are constantly just it's scene after scene where they're just pointing guns at each other being like, it's you, it's you, it's you. I know it's you, it's you.
[00:09:32] Paul Scheer: It's like, it's like the movie, The Thing with idiots, like The Thing where it's like people who are not supposed to be profiles are smarter at figuring out who is an alien and who is not. And these are just normal people. And here's the other thing, they don't have a different skillset. They all are equal, which is another odd thing. So this is a team where everyone is on an equal footing. Like no one's like, oh, you're the, you know, you're the ballistics person, you're the, this person. They are all, they are all equal.
[00:10:00] Jason Mantzoukas: They also are like, they, each trap seems to be so, so, so in the story of the movie, the, the killer is picking everybody off one by one or sometimes in pairs or whatever.
[00:10:13] And there's a watch that appears, or a clock that appears with the time of the next murder. So everybody knows, okay, in between now and then we have to figure out what's going on. But the timelines are like two hours. And the killer somehow has set up traps inclusive of draining an entire body of all of its blood. And using all of that blood to write numbers all over the walls that are some sort of code.
[00:10:41] Paul Scheer: Well, at that point they've been asleep for five hours when they drink the bad coffee. So he has five hours to set up. A day's worth.
[00:10:48] June Diane Raphael: He or she.
[00:10:49] Paul Scheer: Oh, he or she. Sorry. Yes.
[00:10:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Everybody is like, ignore the numbers, the numbers don't matter. Let's find the trap. And I'm like, the numbers definitely matter.
[00:10:57] Paul Scheer: They all work together. They never like, you figure out this and I'll figure out that. They're all like, just, it's like it's the worst people in escape room.
[00:11:05] June Diane Raphael: Paul, they're so, they get so angry at, at each other for always trying to, trying to profile.
[00:11:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:11:14] June Diane Raphael: They're like, enough of that, let's find the killer. Like enough.
[00:11:17] Jason Mantzoukas: We gotta kill somebody.
[00:11:17] June Diane Raphael: Enough of the numbers, enough of the letters. Now there's letters. Fuck those letters. Fuck those numbers. It's like, wait, wait.
[00:11:22] Jason Mantzoukas: It would've made more sense if the, if the thing had happened where it was like three profilers and three like soldiers.
[00:11:29] June Diane Raphael: Tactical.
[00:11:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. You know, like three because, and the idea was.
[00:11:33] June Diane Raphael: Great premise.
[00:11:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Oftentimes you guys are paired together in the field.
[00:11:36] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:11:36] Jason Mantzoukas: You use your complimentary skill sets to solve these, these problems.
[00:11:40] June Diane Raphael: Brain. Yeah.
[00:11:41] Paul Scheer: They all brought guns. And here's the other thing that really cracked up again, just to drive home how much this movie does not even embrace the premise of the film, which is LL Cool J is, uh, like at the very last minute, brought on to join the team to observe, because, you know, people are like, to your point, June, where why is Valmer spending all this money, uh, that. Something's up.
[00:12:06] June Diane Raphael: Well, is that how we, is that how he joins in the beginning?
[00:12:09] Paul Scheer: I thought he said he was joining to observe.
[00:12:11] Jason Mantzoukas: He's an investigator with the Department of Justice, he says.
[00:12:14] Paul Scheer: Right. Okay.
[00:12:14] June Diane Raphael: Thank you, Jason.
[00:12:15] Jason Mantzoukas: First he says he's introduced as a police detective who just wants to tag along and see how they work, which makes a little bit of sense, kind of what we're talking about.
[00:12:25] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:12:25] Jason Mantzoukas: And then. It's then the, the crew becomes suspicious of him because they find maps and information that he has about the island that they're on, and then he comes clean and says, listen, I'm not who I said I was. I'm here investigating Val Kilmer. The Department of Justice thinks he has too much power, basically.
[00:12:43] Paul Scheer: Now, here's what I will say. I don't remember if this is him, because I didn't write down who wrote this, but I, I am gonna bet that it was LL cool J when he goes, you all think you're profilers, I'll profile you right now.
[00:12:54] Movie Audio: What you say about me doesn't tell you about me. It tells me about you. Now, I could say you're a little gambling means you have an addicted personality.
[00:13:05] I could say, I know you're sleeping with one of the guys in this room. I could say you take charge of your team because you never had a leader in your own life and you, when push comes to shove, you crack under pressure. Your partners can't depend on you. You don't belong here.
[00:13:22] Paul Scheer: And when he is profiling, uh, one of the women in the unit, right? This is, uh, I believe, uh, Patricia Velazquez, that's the actress's name. He goes, and you're sleeping with one of the guys. It's like, well, that's not a, that's not a profiler thing. 'Cause at one point he is like, you have daddy issues. You do this. You're sleeping with one of the guys. It's not like it's, it's more detective work. It's not like, it's not psychologically that's not what she's made of. It's just like, oh yeah, you are fucking somebody here. That's okay. And that's fine. It's a fine thing, but you can't sell that next to you have daddy issues. You've always felt behind.
[00:13:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Your birthday, september 19th.
[00:13:58] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:13:59] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, it's like he can't, it's not, that's not what we're doing here. But that's like, those are the kind of like, this movie is making all the shortcuts and broad strokes. It's not interested in any of these people going deeper and actually trying to crack the case, which was disappointing because that's, the movie really stays at the same level the whole time. Everybody is just in active panic throughout and they never.
[00:14:24] June Diane Raphael: But here's my question. Why? I, I, I couldn't understand why they wouldn't assume that Val Kilmer was the killer or that they.
[00:14:32] Paul Scheer: Same.
[00:14:33] Jason Mantzoukas: They do it at one point.
[00:14:35] June Diane Raphael: Killer was at one point, but then they let go of that so quickly and it's like.
[00:14:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, only because they find his body.
[00:14:40] June Diane Raphael: Well at the end, but so many people die before then.
[00:14:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:14:44] June Diane Raphael: And I'm like, why, why are you assuming it's killers amongst us?
[00:14:48] Paul Scheer: Also, Kilmer clearly did not, uh, stay for a life model mold because they really gotta tell you No, no, no. That's him. Even though he doesn't really look like him.
[00:14:57] Jason Mantzoukas: And, and, and there's a, there's a lot. The movie really wants to pull from all of those, you know, Seven and those Grizzly kind of, and so, and they're even trying to make this idea of puppet, like the, oh, the puppet master is the serial killer. And then some of the bodies are strung up like marionettes and stuff like, almost like a puppet master would, but most everybody else just dies in a violent trap of some sort.
[00:15:21] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:15:21] Jason Mantzoukas: In a, escape room type.
[00:15:24] June Diane Raphael: Can I ask a question?
[00:15:25] Paul Scheer: Trap style.
[00:15:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:15:25] Paul Scheer: Trap.
[00:15:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:15:26] June Diane Raphael: Can I ask a question? So.
[00:15:29] Jason Mantzoukas: We're just here asking questions June.
[00:15:30] June Diane Raphael: So they are brought to this island by Val Kilmer to find an actual serial killer who is?
[00:15:37] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:15:38] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:15:38] June Diane Raphael: What?
[00:15:38] Paul Scheer: He is setting up a final. This, this is the final.
[00:15:40] Jason Mantzoukas: This is their final exam. And it's like another one of this, the fake setups.
[00:15:45] June Diane Raphael: Well, I know it's fake, but in the world of the fake setup.
[00:15:48] Paul Scheer: Oh yes.
[00:15:48] Jason Mantzoukas: I'm sorry.
[00:15:49] June Diane Raphael: They know, that they are finding a serial killer and that, that mor next morning and Val Kilmer says he is gonna strike tomorrow. You gotta find the crime scene. I was waiting for that serial killer, that fake story to somehow fold into our real story.
[00:16:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Wouldn't that be great?
[00:16:07] Paul Scheer: Well, because you would think that Val Kilmer.
[00:16:09] June Diane Raphael: That've been great.
[00:16:10] Paul Scheer: Who has left the island, or we assume he has left, the island, has started to set up these traps because uh.
[00:16:15] June Diane Raphael: Where are those traps?
[00:16:16] Paul Scheer: And I think the first body is
[00:16:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, I agree.
[00:16:21] Paul Scheer: The, his trap. But then we also don't know.
[00:16:24] June Diane Raphael: Oh, oh, I see what you're the first body they.
[00:16:26] Jason Mantzoukas: The first body they find.
[00:16:27] June Diane Raphael: I have a question about that.
[00:16:28] Paul Scheer: Well, who's that body?
[00:16:29] June Diane Raphael: So well, that's a mannequin.
[00:16:30] Jason Mantzoukas: I thought that was a mannequin.
[00:16:31] Paul Scheer: That is, okay. Got it. Okay. I don't know.
[00:16:33] June Diane Raphael: That's a mannequin.
[00:16:34] Paul Scheer: Val Kilmer's body also to me look like a mani.
[00:16:36] Jason Mantzoukas: You did also text me. Who is that body do, what's her number? What's her, what's her deal?
[00:16:41] June Diane Raphael: Who is that body?
[00:16:42] Paul Scheer: I mean, look, I'm always, I, I, I very much like, uh, Corey Feldman. I want help bring young girls to Hollywood and just teach 'em the ropes.
[00:16:49] Jason Mantzoukas: My god.
[00:16:50] June Diane Raphael: But when they see that body. There's a tape player that goes off Christian Slater, 'cause of course he's the leader of the group. Goes over, turns off the, turns off the tape, and then a domino setup gets started and all the dominoes start to fall and things are happening.
[00:17:09] Paul Scheer: And they stop and stare. No one.
[00:17:11] June Diane Raphael: They watch.
[00:17:12] Paul Scheer: No one act, no one activates.
[00:17:15] June Diane Raphael: Why wouldn't they stop it?
[00:17:16] Paul Scheer: They know that the, the entire, this is before they even understand that there's a serial killer in their midst. They understand that clearly set up by the.
[00:17:26] June Diane Raphael: It's still in the world of the simulation. Why wouldn't they stop it?
[00:17:28] Jason Mantzoukas: They're.
[00:17:29] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:17:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Even if they were doing the simulate, even if this was just pure, like low no stakes simulation, you know, no, no physical stakes, right?
[00:17:36] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:17:37] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, they don't think they're gonna be hurt or anything like that.
[00:17:39] June Diane Raphael: Still their final.
[00:17:40] Jason Mantzoukas: They're still doing an absolute dog shit job of, uh, assessing the situation of clearing the rooms, of looking for traps.
[00:17:49] June Diane Raphael: Well, I guess their profilers.
[00:17:50] Jason Mantzoukas: When they go to the boat.
[00:17:51] June Diane Raphael: Why would they know?
[00:17:52] Jason Mantzoukas: They blow up the escape boat just by tripping a trip wire that was very visible. You know? They are supposed to be the best of the best, and they're in fact, the worst of the worst. And I would believe that these are the FBI profilers under Cash Patel versus.
[00:18:08] June Diane Raphael: A thousand.
[00:18:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Versus in the two, two thousands.
[00:18:14] Paul Scheer: Now, I will say this, that, uh, I don't trust anything that Christian Slater does because he, well, first of all, he got some sweet. Uh, CS butt cheeks out there. We got to see some, some sweet, sweet.
[00:18:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[00:18:26] Paul Scheer: Sweet cheeks.
[00:18:27] Jason Mantzoukas: You gotta see that Slater tush.
[00:18:28] Paul Scheer: Yeah. A little Slater tush. I was, but he proceeds to have sex and you couldn't make a more open area.
[00:18:37] Jason Mantzoukas: And resonant.
[00:18:38] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:18:39] Jason Mantzoukas: It, it must have been so loud to have sex in like the communal shower, open stone, communal showers, uh, of the, everybody must have heard.
[00:18:48] Paul Scheer: And by the way, this is also a island that is used for military training. No one's ever lived there. It's just for military exercises. But yet, when one of the guys is in a bed, there's all these like posters of naked women up on the wall, as if it was someone's bunk.
[00:19:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Couldn't figure that out.
[00:19:04] June Diane Raphael: Or I think he direct decorated it.
[00:19:06] Paul Scheer: And then I was like, or did he decorate it because?
[00:19:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Or did Val Kilmer? Did Val Kilmer set the scene? Like, like how many people pre-production are going to the island to set it up and by set it up, I mean create a ultra realistic serial killer murder sites. You know what I mean?
[00:19:25] June Diane Raphael: We know the Navy had just been there 'cause they left the sitting ducks, you know?
[00:19:29] Paul Scheer: Right, right.
[00:19:30] June Diane Raphael: Again, I was waiting for the Navy to somehow get folded back in and, and, and for them to find something that, that was gonna be important from the Navy. No, that never happened.
[00:19:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Nothing.
[00:19:42] Paul Scheer: Never.
[00:19:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Nothing important, ever happened. And, and, and, you know, spoiler alert for the movie, the Killer is revealed to be Johnny Lee Miller. For reasons that I still am unclear on.
[00:19:52] Paul Scheer: Totally confused.
[00:19:53] Well, I, I guess the question also is like, there seems to be like, obviously this final, there's a competition element to it, right?
[00:20:01] Because, uh, apparently according to Clifton Collins, uh, like Val Kilmer is like writing his recommendations on his desk and he happened to walk into like his teacher's office and read the, like, read the recs and know that like, uh, that Sarah is not being upgraded. So there's a little bit of competition there.
[00:20:20] June Diane Raphael: Can I say something about Sarah being upgraded though, Paul?
[00:20:23] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:20:24] June Diane Raphael: Her, the, one of the reasons she is not recommended to be a profiler is 'cause she panics. Now that's gonna come back to us later on. She panics. But again, I have to ask, who cares?
[00:20:37] Jason Mantzoukas: If your job is mostly in an office.
[00:20:40] June Diane Raphael: Sitting in front front of a computer, panic away.
[00:20:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:20:43] June Diane Raphael: Like we don't need to medicate for that. Just continue to panic and, and do you work, work through it.
[00:20:47] Jason Mantzoukas: You don't have to and or, or don't be. She doesn't have to in order to fulfill the duties of a, of a profiler, she, I don't think needs to be in the field, you know, uh, doing gunplay, she can be in the office trying to crack the numbers. That's the, I think the point of having the team is like, oh, the good with guns, guy goes and does that. Uh, the people that are good at puzzles get to do puzzles and, and that's a cohesive unit. Nope, nope, nope. Everybody does guns all the time.
[00:21:14] Paul Scheer: But if, if you are to treat the movie as, uh, truth, uh, it is revealed that Johnny Lee Miller, the whole reason why he has done this is yes, he is a serial killer who has infiltrated the FBI's serial killer profiling program to figure out who the most worthy, uh, person is for him to challenge. And that is her. Like, so he is like, oh, wouldn't it be the best coup for me? Like, I don't wanna just kill another person. I don't wanna deal with it. Uh, I wanna find the best of the best. So this has been for him a long con.
[00:21:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Does he say that? Because that's, that's interesting because I could not for the life of me figure out what the genesis.
[00:21:58] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. What the deal was. Said something like that. But are you saying Paul, that he, he wanted sort of the most challenging prey?
[00:22:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:22:05] June Diane Raphael: Okay. So here's what's so crazy about him that even the fact that he penetrated the FBI now, both of his parents were murdered in front of him, or, or it seems like.
[00:22:15] Jason Mantzoukas: By him.
[00:22:15] June Diane Raphael: Both. Well, by him, we, we, we.
[00:22:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
[00:22:18] June Diane Raphael: Yes, they were murdered by him later, but, but when we meet him, it seems that they were just murdered. That alone to me at 10 years old. That alone to me, it's like I kind of want the FBI flagging that on some level.
[00:22:30] Paul Scheer: Right? You would think at a certain point someone would be able to say like, Hey, why was his parents murdered? Let's just look into that a little bit more, but mean maybe he's very, very good. I don't know.
[00:22:40] June Diane Raphael: You know what I wish for? I wish that he had been the one who killed her little sister.
[00:22:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:22:47] Paul Scheer: Well, there have something. Yeah.
[00:22:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, and it's, and it's, and he put Clifton Collins Jr. In the wheelchair. And he, what if he had connections to everybody that they didn't know about? What, or like the idea that they float for LL Cool J's character is that, oh, are you doing this as revenge because you didn't pass the exam like you're trying to get back.
[00:23:10] Like, did you flunk out the FBI didn't want you, like, I couldn't figure out Johnny Lee Miller's, you know, it is just not enough time is given to it at the end. Like, what, what hit?
[00:23:20] Paul Scheer: Does he also change an accent?
[00:23:22] Jason Mantzoukas: He change, he does change accents.
[00:23:24] Paul Scheer: I, I was, I, his accent was so slight that I was like, is this, I couldn't quite figure out if he.
[00:23:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, I mean, it's strange because he is a British person.
[00:23:32] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:23:33] Jason Mantzoukas: His, his character is American. And then when it is revealed. He is southern.
[00:23:39] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:23:40] Jason Mantzoukas: When he, when the final twist comes, he be, he starts to affect like a weird southern drawl that wasn't there before. And I was like, I don't know what this is trying to tell me.
[00:23:48] June Diane Raphael: There were notes of that southern draw early on, but boy, as it come and it goes.
[00:23:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay. I thought it was a different voice. Like I thought he was like, this is the real me now.
[00:23:57] June Diane Raphael: It, right. No, it was sort of there at one point, but it, it is, he's playing fast and loose with that accent. I was also sort of amazed early on, and maybe this is just a product of like, movies used to feature like four white men on a team and no one blinked an eye, but there were so many of them and they all looked so similar to me. I, I genuinely couldn't keep track of them.
[00:24:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Agreed. I, I was happy when some of them got killed at the beginning. Yeah. Was 'cause I was like, I was, I don't know that guy's deal.
[00:24:22] Paul Scheer: Well, but I was upset that the first person who dies is Christian Slate. 'cause I'm like, well, I understand who that is. I was, but the guy like.
[00:24:28] June Diane Raphael: Shocked.
[00:24:28] Paul Scheer: But the guy who is like, I, then there's a gentleman who is, uh, that's Clifton Collins who is uh, you know, wheelchairs. I'm like, okay, that at least gives me another marker.
[00:24:36] Jason Mantzoukas: And then Johnny Lee Miller's American. So, and I know who he is 'cause I know him and his as an actor.
[00:24:41] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:24:41] Jason Mantzoukas: But then there's another British guy who is the guy whose head just pops right off of his body.
[00:24:46] June Diane Raphael: What happened?
[00:24:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Here, when they all wake up from the coffee.
[00:24:48] Paul Scheer: He looked like a robot. I thought it was gonna be revealed that he was a Westworld robot because.
[00:24:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:24:53] Paul Scheer: You saw strings in there that looked like.
[00:24:55] June Diane Raphael: Oh God, Paul.
[00:24:56] Paul Scheer: Ugh. It was.
[00:24:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Love it.
[00:24:57] June Diane Raphael: Well, I, can I ask something about Christian Slater's death? Why? So he's being sprayed with, um.
[00:25:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Step out of the way.
[00:25:04] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:25:04] June Diane Raphael: What?
[00:25:05] Paul Scheer: Liquid nitrogen.
[00:25:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Ni ni rou nitrogen. Nitro.
[00:25:07] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:25:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Some sort of, it's a T2 situation.
[00:25:09] June Diane Raphael: Did you say step out of the way, Jason?
[00:25:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:25:11] June Diane Raphael: Okay. So step out of the way. It was as though he couldn't move, which I did have a question about, like, is it paralyzing you somehow?
[00:25:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Immediately.
[00:25:18] June Diane Raphael: Immediately paralyzing you. And then my next question is like, would the rest of the team did not move to also just take that container, take that blast and move it.
[00:25:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Turn it, everybody watches. Everybody watches all the traps happen from their beginning.
[00:25:35] Paul Scheer: They're frozen. They're frozen.
[00:25:35] Jason Mantzoukas: They end.
[00:25:36] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:25:37] Jason Mantzoukas: They don't try and intercede in any trap's execution. They just watches. Watch it as if they are trapped and they're not.
[00:25:45] Paul Scheer: But here's the thing. That is one canister of, of, uh, liquid nitrogen that's shooting at his ankles. Now, yes, he could have easily just stepped back, stepped out of the way, done anything.
[00:25:58] June Diane Raphael: On the top of his body down.
[00:25:59] Paul Scheer: Right? I don't even wanna get into the fact that that is completely impossible. That would never happen. But the movie also posits the idea that if it starts at your ankles, it would freeze your body up to your head and.
[00:26:13] Jason Mantzoukas: In seconds.
[00:26:14] Paul Scheer: In seconds and crack you like a doll. Like,
[00:26:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. He, he, he breaks like an icicle that drops onto the floor. He breaks in like so many pieces after being sprayed like by, I mean, if you've not seen the movie, imagine like a, a, a birthday party helium canister. Yeah. Is just blowing. Not, it's not like in T2 where he falls into, uh, or, or whatever, a vat of, uh, nitrogen or whatever. This is a spray of nitrogen that freezes him and he's able to talk. He's like, stay where you are. Yeah, he's still giving commands. And I'm like, stop talking. Take a step to your right.
[00:26:53] June Diane Raphael: Take us to baby step to your right. Or someone just move that or turn it off, please. Now here's, because honestly I have to say there was a part of me watching this, 'cause so many of them are witnessing the traps and, and just watching the traps happen.
[00:27:06] There was a part of me that's like, oh my gosh, that's the horror of this movie. That's.
[00:27:12] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[00:27:12] June Diane Raphael: That's the scariest part.
[00:27:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:27:14] Paul Scheer: Right. You couldn't even do anything.
[00:27:16] June Diane Raphael: Yes. Is that when confronted with someone in pain, someone suffering an event happening before your very eyes, like people will freeze and watch and not intervene. That's horrifying.
[00:27:31] Paul Scheer: Well, we've June, we have seen that numerous times in Scare Tactics. The premise of scare tactic.
[00:27:36] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:27:36] Paul Scheer: The horror prank show is like, they put people in these situations and they often
[00:27:40] June Diane Raphael: Freeze.
[00:27:40] Paul Scheer: Do as they are told or freeze.
[00:27:43] Jason Mantzoukas: But then I think the whole point of this program is at the level they're at, they would've already learned to push through that immediate freeze. They would've already learned the skill sets and tools to not just be observers to these tragedies, but to in fact either intercede or get to it before it happens.
[00:28:05] Paul Scheer: I mean, the opening scene is saying, Hey guys don't freeze, be smarter. And yet they aren't. And I thought that his death was so bad in the sense that he didn't do anything. I was like, well, clearly he's the serial killer.
[00:28:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:28:16] Paul Scheer: Like he has set up some sort of contraption.
[00:28:19] June Diane Raphael: I thought so too.
[00:28:19] Paul Scheer: To make it look like his body broke into glass. Now I will say this, you know, I, I know that you both, uh, love interior design and I would love to show you that, uh, if you like interior design, you can actually, uh, purchase a broken, uh, Christian Slater. Uh, I think, uh, Scott, can you pop that up there? This is, uh, this is the body. It comes on a special mount. It's on an auction house right now.
[00:28:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh my God.
[00:28:43] Paul Scheer: Yeah. The legs, uh, are separate. You can, you can do the whole thing. You can, yeah. You can get in there. Part of his face is peeling off. Uh, but again, that's a great centerpiece for a living room.
[00:28:52] Jason Mantzoukas: That's the kind of thing that I feel like we should use our money to buy and then have it in the How Did This Get Made house.
[00:28:58] Paul Scheer: I would love it.
[00:28:59] Jason Mantzoukas: And because I think a lot of people don't know that we all live together now.
[00:29:02] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:29:02] Paul Scheer: I know. And it's so nice.
[00:29:03] Jason Mantzoukas: We all live together now in a content house, by the way, that's kind of just about How Did This Get Made?
[00:29:07] Paul Scheer: I am, I have become obsessed on Instagram. Um, there is a wax museum that is auctioning off every one of their wax figures, and they're pretty conserv. Like they're not, they're not expensive to a certain degree where it's like all of a sudden I'm like. Can I get this Tom Cruise? Can I get this Conan O'Brien, this Jay Leno. The Jay Le one. The Jay Leno one was the one that I was so close to.
[00:29:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Why? Why is the Jay Leno one the one you want?
[00:29:36] June Diane Raphael: Please.
[00:29:36] Paul Scheer: Because I think anyone would love a little Jay Leno in the house.
[00:29:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, it's not little though, is my guess.
[00:29:41] Paul Scheer: No, he is a life size.
[00:29:42] Jason Mantzoukas: It's life. Life size. Yes. Because then you know what's gonna happen. And June, this is for you. If you allow Paul to buy the wax figure of Jay Leno, he's then gonna start saying, Hey, I need an antique firetruck to go with the Jay Leno doll.
[00:29:57] Paul Scheer: I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to get a lot of cars.
[00:29:59] June Diane Raphael: You imagine. I, I really, sometimes I think about it. Like if I wasn't in his life, what his living quarters.
[00:30:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh God.
[00:30:04] June Diane Raphael: I mean it would just be, you know.
[00:30:07] Paul Scheer: It's tricky. It's a tricky.
[00:30:07] Jason Mantzoukas: It would just, he would be living in a house of horrors.
[00:30:11] Paul Scheer: Well, especially when you see, like, if you can get a Jay Leno for a thousand bucks, why not? Like, like.
[00:30:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[00:30:16] Paul Scheer: That's, that's what life has opened us up to.
[00:30:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Without you, June, I feel like the 15 foot skeleton that comes out at Halloween is out year round.
[00:30:24] Paul Scheer: Ah.
[00:30:24] Jason Mantzoukas: And inside the house.
[00:30:26] Paul Scheer: We, we, well, we have seen many a times now, I will say. And I, I, I, I will take all the slings and arrows you wanna throw at me, but that skeleton was, was brought to this home by one person.
[00:30:37] June Diane Raphael: That was my idea. But, but.
[00:30:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, it's great.
[00:30:39] June Diane Raphael: I will say that that skeleton is very static and it has a point of view, and it's very beautiful. And there's, our neighbors have two, have one.
[00:30:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:30:47] June Diane Raphael: You know, so it's, that's, that's a different thing. And I think that's a beautiful spook and a beautiful scare.
[00:30:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Agreed.
[00:30:52] June Diane Raphael: What I worry about with Paul is.
[00:30:55] Paul Scheer: I want a shirt that says A beautiful spook, and it's a big skeleton over somebody's hedge.
[00:31:00] June Diane Raphael: But, but what I really worry about with Paul, and it's, it's honestly scary to think about, is just what. If given no boundaries.
[00:31:08] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:31:09] June Diane Raphael: You know, what he would come up with. What items? What figurines, what stickers, what?
[00:31:15] Paul Scheer: It is tricky for me.
[00:31:17] June Diane Raphael: What kind of, I don't even, I can't even imagine.
[00:31:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, just the kinds of auctions that he would be registering for and what they would be selling.
[00:31:25] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. I think what's always hard for me is when Paul comes home with things framed because it's like.
[00:31:32] Paul Scheer: I can get that.
[00:31:32] June Diane Raphael: It's like it's really hard. 'cause I'm like, well God, it's already framed.
[00:31:36] Paul Scheer: And I've done this for a long time.
[00:31:37] June Diane Raphael: You've done that for a long time. He's.
[00:31:38] Paul Scheer: Very long.
[00:31:39] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:31:39] Paul Scheer: I've been, I've been, uh.
[00:31:41] June Diane Raphael: You were really good.
[00:31:41] Jason Mantzoukas: It's great.
[00:31:41] June Diane Raphael: But like, it's, it's really hard 'cause it's like, it's framed and so when something gets framed it feels like it's gotta go up.
[00:31:47] Paul Scheer: I know exactly the piece that you're talking about. And, uh, you know, in re retrospects and in retrospect, those are the things I wouldn't get now. I mean, times changed.
[00:31:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Like the most chilling. So to you, June, the most chilling words out of Paul's mouth are, I'm having the art hangers come tomorrow without you knowing why or for what to hang. To hang what?
[00:32:06] June Diane Raphael: Listen, I think at this point we've been together for so long. Like, I don't fear that happening anymore, you know? But we definitely, we definitely had a transitional period.
[00:32:16] Paul Scheer: There were moments. There were moments. Now back to this film, Mindhunters.
[00:32:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Can I ask you guys a question? Because it, like we've said, this is a, this is a Renny Harland movie who is like a, a real auteur of this schlocky, um, era.
[00:32:32] Um, uh, and then, you know, like we said, Val Kilmer, LL Cool J there, Johnny Lee Miller. There's recognizable names, there's recognize, it's like it's got a vibe that it's clearly expensive. They clearly spent money. I've never heard of this movie.
[00:32:46] Paul Scheer: Never, never, ever.
[00:32:48] Jason Mantzoukas: When I clicked it up, I was like, I, I don't recognize any of these images. Any of this art. Yeah. I don't know what this is.
[00:32:55] June Diane Raphael: And you know what I was so disappointed by when it started and even being in that bar scene. I was like, this is right up my alley.
[00:33:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep.
[00:33:02] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:33:02] June Diane Raphael: Like, I love.
[00:33:03] Jason Mantzoukas: This is gonna be fun.
[00:33:04] June Diane Raphael: This is gonna be so much fun and I was so excited and I love the idea of they're all trying to out profile each other and like I was just like, oh, finally something for me, something for the girls, you know? But then boy did it devolve.
[00:33:19] Jason Mantzoukas: It really is, it's the kind of movie that structurally needs the team to come together, but they never do.
[00:33:25] Paul Scheer: Well. Yeah.
[00:33:26] Jason Mantzoukas: So the, it's as if the movie never starts. It's just that people.
[00:33:29] June Diane Raphael: Exactly.
[00:33:30] Jason Mantzoukas: People just start dying. Nobody ever knows why. Nobody ever the it, it also doesn't do that thing, which some movies do, which is let us, the audience in on information that the main characters don't have, you know, so that we know the trouble they're in before they do, they don't let that happen. It's pure discovery and chaos.
[00:33:51] June Diane Raphael: And there's all these threads where, you know, when the island is brought up in the outer banks. Crow. Crottin or whatever. Croat. Yeah, whatever that was.
[00:34:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep.
[00:34:00] June Diane Raphael: And then first of all, what the fuck was that? And that doesn't even cut, that doesn't even fold back in.
[00:34:06] Paul Scheer: It was just.
[00:34:07] Jason Mantzoukas: And you would think it would be in, it would, it would be important to information dump. And it's not.
[00:34:12] June Diane Raphael: It doesn't matter ultimately.
[00:34:16] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:34:16] Paul Scheer: Well then the whole movie doesn't.
[00:34:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:34:17] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. It's not why he's doing this. He's doing this to find the perfect prey. It has nothing, no bearing on the rest of the plot. But again, when it's mentioned, I'm like, oh, okay. This is the movie? That we're getting, like revenge or figuring out a mystery of what happened on this island? Okay.
[00:34:37] Paul Scheer: But you can't like, give us, you can't give us busy work because if you're gonna take a moment to explain an island and a, and a mysticism around it, or a story like, we're like, well, that's important. It's, it's not like life. Like, you know, it's like, well, every bit of information here is going to be building to a larger point, which again, why set up Christian Slater as the creepy guy?
[00:34:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:34:59] Paul Scheer: And then also you kill him in such a way that it's like, it would have to be insane for him to even have survived. Oh, I used a robot, I did this. Or, so it's like it very.
[00:35:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Or if he had just not been standing exactly where he was standing.
[00:35:12] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:35:12] Jason Mantzoukas: That's the other thing is like these traps are, it's like the game mousetrap. They are so random and but require such specific situations to unfold.
[00:35:25] June Diane Raphael: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Perfectly to the second.
[00:35:27] June Diane Raphael: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:28] Jason Mantzoukas: That is just preposterous. Like, uh, just people moving through the world would not fall into these rhythms and this exact setups.
[00:35:36] Paul Scheer: But I guess the thing that I keep on coming back to is even like, where's the mystery? Like kill people in a way where they're not definitely dead. When you get like three harpoons to the chest, yeah. You're dead. So you start taking people off the table in a way where it's like. Oh, I don't know, because I thought at one point when Clifton Collins like crawls into the freezer room, by the way, they do collect, uh, Christian Slater's body and put it like in, like they, they morgue it up. I'm like, at this point, do we need to collect all the pieces? Like I feel like we should be solving this. Like something's going on here.
[00:36:11] June Diane Raphael: Thought that was respectful.
[00:36:12] Paul Scheer: We don't have time to get the gurney to load up the gurney to bring it into the thing. It's like, it seems like he's gonna be frozen for a bit.
[00:36:18] June Diane Raphael: I guess you're right. He was frozen, so that's kind of.
[00:36:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Why didn't Clifton Collins just stay in the free, like here's the other thing is, once everybody's so suspect of each other, and once people are really dying, everybody should just hide.
[00:36:31] June Diane Raphael: Oh my God. Why did he get out of the freezer?
[00:36:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Everybody just go hide on your own.
[00:36:35] June Diane Raphael: He was told to hide. He shouldn't.
[00:36:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait it out.
[00:36:37] June Diane Raphael: Yes, wait it out. But the thing that, the thing that I actually really made me insane and I I, I wanted to throw the remote at the very end when LL Cool J and Sarah are there and there is a helicopter in sight, but they've just, you know, they made it out.
[00:36:55] Paul Scheer: Yes, yes.
[00:36:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yes.
[00:36:55] June Diane Raphael: And she says, when do you know the situation is cleared? Resolved something? Yeah.
[00:37:01] Paul Scheer: Basically like, don't party until you're out.
[00:37:03] June Diane Raphael: When do you know the situation is cleared? And they both say to each other on the ride home.
[00:37:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:37:09] Paul Scheer: And yet, but they're not on the ride home yet.
[00:37:11] June Diane Raphael: They're not on the ride home.
[00:37:12] Paul Scheer: One more twist.
[00:37:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:37:14] Paul Scheer: There's gonna be.
[00:37:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Wouldn't it great if the chopper just blew up?
[00:37:16] June Diane Raphael: Nothing.
[00:37:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:37:17] June Diane Raphael: They're not in there.
[00:37:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:37:18] June Diane Raphael: Now, was that intentional to think like, no, I didn't think so, Jason.
[00:37:22] Jason Mantzoukas: I didn't think so. I don't think the movie's smart enough. I think that movie.
[00:37:25] June Diane Raphael: It really made me angry. I was like, how fucking dare you? You don't even need that helicopter to take off. Just put them in there somehow.
[00:37:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep.
[00:37:31] Paul Scheer: Right. The, the same day you're shooting the helicopter, coming to the island. Just shoot that other scene too, like the two of them leaving off all.
[00:37:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Well now wait, so now you're just the line producer of this movie?
[00:37:40] Paul Scheer: I'm just trying, I'm just trying to make for the day.
[00:37:41] Jason Mantzoukas: You, you got, we've got the chopper for one day. We're gonna do in the morning we're gonna, because of southern exposure, we're gonna be looking.
[00:37:48] June Diane Raphael: Oh my God, Paul just wanted to do the one liner for this movie.
[00:37:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, are, are you giving us day out of dates for this?
[00:37:55] Paul Scheer: Sometimes I sometimes look, and this is the problem that I have now, is like, not only am I looking for like that, I'm like, but why didn't they do it? They could have done it. They had the, they had it. Were they running over that day? When I start to look at, when I look at it as a line producer, I really, that's another level of movie watching. Like, I do think of that often. I'm like, well, how did they, how did they get over that? They must have.
[00:38:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Why would they do that?
[00:38:21] One of the things that I think could have been a theme for the movie that is not. Be, and it is, it is actually the theme of the movie is after the cold open when, um, Christian Slater and Captain Morris are downloading with Val Kilmer and he's like, basically, here's how you fucked it up, this and that, and this and that.
[00:38:42] You missed this clue. You missed that clue. You took longer than anybody else, blah, blah, blah. He's dressing them down. She's like, I don't understand how, what could we have done to save the girls?
[00:38:51] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:38:52] Jason Mantzoukas: And he says, nothing.
[00:38:54] Paul Scheer: Girls are already dead.
[00:38:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, they couldn't have been saved. They, this test was to get you used to not winning.
[00:39:00] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:39:00] Jason Mantzoukas: But, and I was like, oh, whoa, wait a minute.
[00:39:04] June Diane Raphael: I know I struggled with that as well.
[00:39:06] Jason Mantzoukas: I was like, that's what this is about? This is about not winning the best?
[00:39:10] June Diane Raphael: I think. Okay. So, so there's something, and I, I think I rewound it and watched it twice because there was something very, uh, disturbing about, and really unsettling about Val Kilmer's, like worldview on crime.
[00:39:25] Because I think what he was saying is, Hey, someone gets murdered. You find out just a regular old murder, you'll find out in 48 hours if you can get them.
[00:39:32] Paul Scheer: But if you can't, then it's done.
[00:39:34] June Diane Raphael: If you can't, then it's done. You'll never find them.
[00:39:35] Jason Mantzoukas: It's very unlikely.
[00:39:36] June Diane Raphael: That's so put, put that over there. They're, they're never gonna get, that's never getting solved. Which I was like, okay. And then he is like, but if it's a serial killer, his point of view almost seem to be you want them to actually kill someone. Because then.
[00:39:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Cause then you can start building a profile.
[00:39:55] June Diane Raphael: You can start building a profile.
[00:39:56] Paul Scheer: But they never, ever wait.
[00:39:58] June Diane Raphael: And it almost seems like you want more, more people to die.
[00:40:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:40:01] June Diane Raphael: So that, that profile gets clear.
[00:40:03] Jason Mantzoukas: I think that's the kind of shit that LL Cool J is investigating.
[00:40:06] June Diane Raphael: And as he should.
[00:40:08] Paul Scheer: And, and by the way then that would also make Val Kimer the best killer for this thing. He should be a serial killer. That's the whole thing. Because what this movie devolves to is this moment the least exciting. I'm pricking my finger to get blood out. I was like, what is, I'm watching that montage. A montage of people like Blink. Put a little blood in the thing.
[00:40:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Terrible.
[00:40:30] June Diane Raphael: Now, as a line producer, how quickly do you think they were able to shoot all that?
[00:40:34] Paul Scheer: Oh, you could bang that out really quick.
[00:40:34] June Diane Raphael: Their hands.
[00:40:35] Paul Scheer: You could bring that really quick. You actually, yeah, you bring it. You shoot that on another stage while they're doing, while they're setting up somewhere.
[00:40:40] June Diane Raphael: Oh, that's a skeleton crew?
[00:40:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Do you guys think on this island, okay, this is an island, a remote island that is used as a training facility for the Navy. How did all these cats get there?
[00:40:50] Paul Scheer: Well, I feel like cats are on island, right? Isn't, isn't that like a thing that Alcatraz has a bunch of cats?
[00:40:54] June Diane Raphael: I think cats.
[00:40:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, does it? Okay.
[00:40:56] June Diane Raphael: I think, yeah. I think there is something about cats.
[00:40:58] Jason Mantzoukas: When they wake up in the morning and the cat is dead, hung.
[00:41:02] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I didn't like.
[00:41:02] Jason Mantzoukas: And there's a badge stuck into it. Oh, I was like.
[00:41:05] June Diane Raphael: And a clock.
[00:41:06] Jason Mantzoukas: That's the moment that I was like, this crew needs a jokester.
[00:41:10] Paul Scheer: Well, okay.
[00:41:11] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, because I was like, what rank is that cat? I didn't know the cat was one of the agents. Is that the cat's badge?
[00:41:17] Paul Scheer: I do wanna also just talk about that from the point of view of, it doesn't make any fucking sense because Sarah is brushing her teeth in the bathroom and the lights are off, and then when the lights come on, the cat is literally hanging behind her.
[00:41:33] So I don't even understand how she approached the sink without seeing a cat hanging from the ceiling. Sh why don't why you have to have brushing your teeth. Just have her walk into the room and see the cat. Like, ah, but like why are we, why are we?
[00:41:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Everything is, everything is needlessly stepped out.
[00:41:49] June Diane Raphael: You know what would've been cool? If the Navy, knowing that the FBI was coming, had also set a bunch of traps?
[00:41:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, interesting.
[00:42:00] June Diane Raphael: And.
[00:42:01] Paul Scheer: Wait, so you're saying, okay. Okay, so I just wanna get this straight because.
[00:42:03] June Diane Raphael: But fun traps.
[00:42:04] Paul Scheer: Right. So basically the Navy is like, Hey, you motherfuckers kick us out of our, our island once a month or once a year. So we're gonna sabotage it for you on top of your sabotage.
[00:42:15] June Diane Raphael: Here's the way I would rewrite it. So there's this like, real kind of rivalry between the Navy and the FBI.
[00:42:22] Paul Scheer: Got it.
[00:42:22] June Diane Raphael: Who's, who's gonna use the island?
[00:42:24] Paul Scheer: Classic rivalry.
[00:42:25] June Diane Raphael: Classic rivalry. And so they've set up all of these.
[00:42:28] Jason Mantzoukas: It's, it's heated, you could say.
[00:42:29] June Diane Raphael: Yes, it's a heated rivalry. They've set up all of these traps, but they're fun. Right.
[00:42:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay.
[00:42:35] June Diane Raphael: They're, they're sort of like, more like pranks, but they keep on derailing our crew because they don't know which is which.
[00:42:42] Paul Scheer: Right. So it could be like a prank or a serial killer.
[00:42:45] June Diane Raphael: Yes. And then the Navy ends up being able to figure out that they're in trouble because some of their traps either didn't go off the way they expected it or something happened, which like the navy. By the way, actually, as I'm saying this, who was watching those cameras that were on?
[00:43:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Val Kilmer.
[00:43:05] Paul Scheer: So, but no, but he, didn't he take off the, didn't he take off the island or you guys? He didn't take off the.
[00:43:08] Jason Mantzoukas: No, he, that's what they reveal is that he stayed on the island.
[00:43:11] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:43:11] Jason Mantzoukas: And with other FBI agents and was to watch running the op until presumably Johnny Lee Miller goes, finds them, kills them all and strings him up because Johnny Lee Miller is the puppet master. ,
[00:43:24] Paul Scheer: But.
[00:43:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Or the puppeteer.
[00:43:25] Paul Scheer: But at the, but at the, at the same point in this, okay, sorry. At the same.
[00:43:31] June Diane Raphael: Anyway, I wish, I wish the.
[00:43:32] Paul Scheer: It never happened. It never even started. And so his crew was immediately killed. And I guess the question is, so when was his crew immediately killed that night?
[00:43:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Wouldn't it have been fun to cut into the control room and get to see Val Kilmer holding court being like, let's do this. Let's cue that. Let's set up this, let's do that for a little bit of that beginning of Act two. Have there be like a little, you could still believe, oh wait a minute, maybe Val is the big bad.
[00:44:03] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:44:03] Jason Mantzoukas: And he's, you know, 'cause the team thinks he flew off the island, but we, the audience know he's still there.
[00:44:08] Paul Scheer: Oh, he's fucking with them.
[00:44:09] Jason Mantzoukas: And maybe this is his thing. Maybe he's trying to eliminate them. Maybe he thinks they're coming for his job or maybe he's just lost his mind. Or any of the things that you cast Val Kilmer to represent should be present. But in fact, none of it is none of the kooky, crazy Val Kilmer stuff. He just gives a speech at the beginning and that's it, you know?
[00:44:28] June Diane Raphael: And none of the fun antics of the Navy.
[00:44:30] Jason Mantzoukas: No, no, and, and no Navy pranks.
[00:44:33] Paul Scheer: And so, but again, I guess what I'm looking at too is like from, again, not to look at it from a line producer's point of view, but if I'm a, if I'm a, if I'm a military line producer, I'm like, oh, we just wasted all this money. Like, 'cause, uh, clearly Val Kilmer.
[00:44:47] Jason Mantzoukas: I think military line producers love wasting all the money.
[00:44:49] Paul Scheer: Alright, well, I mean, I, I'm just looking at it from a, a budget. I'm like, this guy made me rent out this island and they didn't even get there. All the profilers are dead. Now I gotta do it again?
[00:44:58] Jason Mantzoukas: See, for me, I'm looking at this from a, a wardrobe department point.
[00:45:02] Paul Scheer: Okay, got it. Okay, so tell me. Yeah.
[00:45:04] Jason Mantzoukas: And I'm like, you know what, we could have differentiated who a lot of these people were with wardrobe changes. You know, like, have someone be in like a Mets jersey. I would love something that truly identifiable so that you can really start to tell some of these guys apart, you know?
[00:45:20] Paul Scheer: Well, because you want, you want a little bit of like, personality in these guys now at the end. I mean, they keep on blaming LL Cool J It can't be more clear that it's not LL Cool J.
[00:45:31] Right? Like, it's like he passes every test, but yet Sarah beats the shit out of him. But wait, why does, I may be revealing that my own dumbness here. Why? Does LL Cool J shoot that one guy in the, like, he shoots Johnny Lee Miller in the street and that's Sarah's.
[00:45:48] June Diane Raphael: I, I didn't understand why.
[00:45:51] Jason Mantzoukas: I didn't either.
[00:45:51] Paul Scheer: Okay. Unless, okay. God, that makes me feel good. All right.
[00:45:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Unless LL Cool J.
[00:45:55] Paul Scheer: Figured it out.
[00:45:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Has figured it out. If LL Cool J has figured it out. He thinks I'm, I'm killing the killer.
[00:46:03] Paul Scheer: But then you, but then you would need a moment when she starts beating the shit out of him. Like, Hey, hey, I figured it out.
[00:46:08] It's not me, it's him. And, and he starts to prove it. Like again, the only profiler in the mix if he does do that.
[00:46:14] June Diane Raphael: Well, but here's a question I have though, is that, is she uh, so she is able to find out that LL Cool J is not the killer because she puts that special like blue light.
[00:46:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:46:26] June Diane Raphael: On his hands.
[00:46:27] Paul Scheer: And that's that which is by the way, not profiling.
[00:46:29] June Diane Raphael: Powder.
[00:46:30] Jason Mantzoukas: On the clock.
[00:46:31] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. On the clock. On that powder from But the powder she uses is from the, the writing on the backs of their, of their jackets.
[00:46:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep.
[00:46:39] June Diane Raphael: Which really frustrated me. 'cause this like, they've all touched those jackets.
[00:46:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Correct.
[00:46:44] June Diane Raphael: Every single time.
[00:46:45] Jason Mantzoukas: And not only that, not only that, Johnny Lee Miller, when he picks up his hands and it's revealed that the, the liquid or the whatever is on his hands, it's all over his hands.
[00:46:55] Paul Scheer: Right..
[00:46:55] Jason Mantzoukas: How did he not notice?
[00:46:56] June Diane Raphael: I dunno.
[00:46:57] Jason Mantzoukas: He must have been hand, the clock must have been slick with the liquid.
[00:47:00] Paul Scheer: You know, just grabbing at it every left.
[00:47:04] June Diane Raphael: Well, so, and when did she turn back those clock? I mean, I don't know.
[00:47:07] Paul Scheer: What was the cigarette made out of by the way?
[00:47:10] June Diane Raphael: Acid.
[00:47:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, it's got acid in it.
[00:47:11] Paul Scheer: I mean.
[00:47:11] Jason Mantzoukas: They say it had acid in it.
[00:47:12] Paul Scheer: How, acid, I mean, but the amount of acid.
[00:47:15] Jason Mantzoukas: How did he make that, how did he insert acid into a cigarette in like minutes?
[00:47:20] Paul Scheer: And, and, and by the way, not even, like he, so he's in, he's put so much acid in the cigarette that if the, if the cigarette touched the ground, it burned through. So that would mean that if she touched it to take it out, her fingers would've just melted off, right?
[00:47:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. How did it, how did the cigarette exist in a pack of cigarettes without the acid just dripping straight through the.
[00:47:41] June Diane Raphael: No idea. The paper seems to have been activated by the lighter.
[00:47:44] Jason Mantzoukas: I guess so.
[00:47:45] June Diane Raphael: I, I was also thinking the whole time, like as soon as shit started to hit the fan at 10:00 AM I was like, sweetie, go have a cigarette.
[00:47:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:47:52] June Diane Raphael: Like, it is not the like, please fuck the patch. Like, go have your cigarette. You are about to die.
[00:47:58] Paul Scheer: Wow. Okay. So you're, you're in that
[00:47:59] Jason Mantzoukas: I was also, these are some of this stuff too, is if this movie was at all fun, I wouldn't be looking so critically at it. You know, like I wouldn't, if I'm, I would be willing to be like, oh, and I loved it when she lit the cigarette and it was acid and she melted into the thing because that caused this to happen. That was so fun and it really paid this off or whatever. No, because it seems so random. Each thing seems so random and I know that it's, every kill is tailored to that person's particular weakness. Hers is cigarettes, and this person's is panic and yes, yes, he's trying to push everybody's buttons, but it does, it's not really there. It's not satisfying in any way, you know?
[00:48:39] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:48:39] Paul Scheer: Well, I think that, you know, look. Does this movie work? Absolutely not. Is it well acted? Probably not to the degree that I need it to be, because I'm not ever feeling, the only time I felt tense in this entire movie and not frustrated was when the moment when Christian Slater came up to the car window, I was like, uhoh, cool.
[00:48:58] What are we gonna see? That's the only tension moment. And the movie, 'cause the rest of it is really like, kind of bare knuckle brawling. It's like there's no, like, you know, that famous scene in One Battle, uh, After Another where you know, they're doing a blood test, so cinematic, so cool. Love it. And it's like the same thing.
[00:49:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Renny Harlan, Paul Thomas Anderson.
[00:49:18] Paul Scheer: But it's like, how did you make the, like the, the most exciting detective moment is a machine telling you who is the person and guess what the machine's wrong.
[00:49:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:49:28] Paul Scheer: And the machine is.
[00:49:29] June Diane Raphael: Wait, wait a second.
[00:49:30] Jason Mantzoukas: How, how did he get the machine to be wrong? Because how?
[00:49:33] Paul Scheer: Because he put blood under her finger.
[00:49:34] June Diane Raphael: Right. But he put blood, he moved the blood, I guess, which like, wow. Wow. Okay.
[00:49:39] Jason Mantzoukas: It's, it's unsatisfying in a way that like, you know, when you pull at the threads of the reveal of, at the end of Usual Suspects, you know?
[00:49:48] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:49:49] Jason Mantzoukas: And it's like, oh wow, he really did all of these things.
[00:49:54] Paul Scheer: Yep. It works.
[00:49:54] Jason Mantzoukas: You kind of get glimpses of all of the ways in which he kind of was able to do it, or you, it, it all kind of falls into place. None of that is present here.
[00:50:04] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:50:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, it's a, it's a big reveal without any supporting data or any supporting imagery. That helps us understand how Johnny Lee Miller. How and why, why Johnny? I guess we're meant to believe he's just wants to kill.
[00:50:17] Paul Scheer: The best, the best person.
[00:50:18] June Diane Raphael: He wants to kill.
[00:50:19] Jason Mantzoukas: He wants good. Um, wouldn't it be opponent?
[00:50:21] Paul Scheer: Wouldn't it be Val Kilmer?
[00:50:23] Jason Mantzoukas: You would think.
[00:50:24] June Diane Raphael: Right. He seems to know the most, but I, I think that I was also really shocked that as soon as they suspected someone of being the un, what do they call it? Unsub.
[00:50:37] Paul Scheer: Oh yeah, unsub. By the way, the original title of the film.
[00:50:40] June Diane Raphael: Unsub?
[00:50:41] Paul Scheer: Unsub.
[00:50:41] June Diane Raphael: Unsubscribe.
[00:50:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh my.
[00:50:43] Paul Scheer: I mean, by the way, they're like, oh yeah, the studio thought that Mindhunters is better. I was like, you think Unsub? Whatcha are you guys see this week? Unsub.
[00:50:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Unsub.
[00:50:52] Paul Scheer: Unsub.
[00:50:52] Jason Mantzoukas: So, oh, is it a submarine? Is it a submarine movie?
[00:50:55] Paul Scheer: Unsub actually makes me believe every bit of bad writing that we have are having a problem with. It is like if you, if you, after writing a great script, are like Unsub, like, no, no, like that level, like you didn't do it. You didn't do enough work.
[00:51:09] June Diane Raphael: Okay. But if they, they all, as soon as they accuse someone of being the Un Sub, the entire crew immediately pulls their gun out on them.
[00:51:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:51:18] June Diane Raphael: And it looks like they're about to shoot them. And I'm like, I know you are like a, a member of law enforcement on some level. Like, how about detain them? How about arrest them? How about take a set of handcuffs and handcuff them? Like I guess they do that with LL Cool J. But I'm like, it seems like the immediate response is you have to die now.
[00:51:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:51:38] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:51:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Immediately. Like everybody panics all the time.
[00:51:42] Paul Scheer: Well, they, they are, they are they panicked? They are.
[00:51:44] Jason Mantzoukas: And they are meant to be the elite. And at no point are they like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We are the best of the best. We need to get our act together and work together to solve this problem and get out as, as, as a group.
[00:51:59] And in fact, it's, it truly is everyone for themselves. Everyone is acting so weirdly, selfishly, they're not a good team. And, and maybe you could, and maybe if we rewatched it, you would see Johnny Lee Miller.
[00:52:11] Paul Scheer: No, Jason, don't give it that.
[00:52:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Sewing discord or something like that. But it's just not in the, it's not there.
[00:52:17] Paul Scheer: Well, can I just say this? If I was gonna go back in the movie, the only thing I would be watching is Johnny Lee Miller's jacket, because clearly he's held everything in his jacket.
[00:52:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:52:27] Paul Scheer: His jacket is Oh, I got remotes. That got transistors. Yeah. Like he would be buzzing. He is, he is wearing like, uh, I've seen this before, like, uh, Jason, you might've seen this on some travel websites. These like travel jackets.
[00:52:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:52:39] Paul Scheer: Where you can put them on, but you can also shove your computer back. So it looks like a jacket.
[00:52:43] Jason Mantzoukas: It's got like harnesses.
[00:52:44] June Diane Raphael: Oh, wow.
[00:52:45] Jason Mantzoukas: And the 43 pocket.
[00:52:46] June Diane Raphael: Oh, wow.
[00:52:47] Jason Mantzoukas: The charging cables.
[00:52:49] June Diane Raphael: Uh, has he killed since he was 10 years old?
[00:52:53] Paul Scheer: I have to imagine. Yes.
[00:52:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Wouldn't it have been great if it turns out that the, that he is responsible, he is the case study that Christian Slater and, uh, Katherine Morris, that house, that, that's his murder. Right? It, well, it should have like, that the, the, the person they're studying in profiler class is in fact part of the class. You know.
[00:53:14] Paul Scheer: They, they should have made, they should. Yeah. They should have been the most elusive serial killer. Then it's like, let's recreate his last crime scene. Let's do this.
[00:53:22] June Diane Raphael: That would've been great.
[00:53:23] Paul Scheer: Um, I will say this. She doesn't even profile 'em at the end. The way she gets 'em at the end is through finger. I mean, literally just fingerprinting.
[00:53:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:53:32] Paul Scheer: Like it's, there's nothing about it. She doesn't go, of course you did this and you did this. She just figures
[00:53:37] Jason Mantzoukas: it out because of the, the fingerprints. So it's like she doesn't get a win. She's not even good.
[00:53:42] June Diane Raphael: Tactical. Yeah.
[00:53:43] Jason Mantzoukas: And he just, um, confesses. Right. She doesn't do anything. She does. She's looking, she is looking at LL Cool J's hands. Does not see the glowy substance, looks confounded. And he holds his hands up to be like dummy to her, dummy to, to be like, Hey, I, it's me.
[00:54:03] June Diane Raphael: Had he not done that, she would never have checked his fingers.
[00:54:07] Paul Scheer: Absolutely.
[00:54:08] Jason Mantzoukas: I think she would've thought she was the murderer. She would've, I think she might've been like, oh no. Did I do it?
[00:54:13] Paul Scheer: She would hold her gun out on herself.
[00:54:15] June Diane Raphael: I'll take myself out just in case. Oh my God.
[00:54:19] Paul Scheer: That's the best.
[00:54:19] Jason Mantzoukas: And then he's like, I killed my parents and nobody ever asked me, nobody ever said, did you do it? Or why? Nobody ever asked me. He's, he just wants to be recognized as the murderer, I guess.
[00:54:31] Paul Scheer: Again, I want to talk about this from the other perspective of saying LL Cool J Jumps on board. I'm here to monitor because he's been spending too much money on props and renting houses and fly sound effects and.
[00:54:44] And then what you reveal is, I wanted to be with the best of the best because I am a serial killer. Like, so he coordinated his appearance there because he is a master of serial killer and he is like. I needed to do a cat and mouse. And, but yet there are no clues. It's really just countdown clocks. And, but he is like, again, it's like there's, there's no reason to feel excited about any of these choices. Like, not.
[00:55:08] June Diane Raphael: Also, I just never understood where the clocks came from. If you had told me like, oh yeah, my parents died at the strike of midnight, or I killed them at the strike of midnight. Or I was, I was assaulted by a clock. Like, I don't know. I needed, so I needed some.
[00:55:21] Paul Scheer: I was assaulted by a clock. Another great t-shirt.
[00:55:25] June Diane Raphael: I need something.
[00:55:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Just imagine the scene.
[00:55:26] June Diane Raphael: Why do you care about clocks so much?
[00:55:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Imagine the scene that we never saw, which is Johnny Lee Miller packing to go to the island.
[00:55:34] June Diane Raphael: Oh.
[00:55:34] Jason Mantzoukas: It's like.
[00:55:35] Paul Scheer: Put everything in those.
[00:55:37] Jason Mantzoukas: It's a dozen watches. It's 500 clocks.
[00:55:40] Paul Scheer: But by the way, all those, they're all, they're all, um, not automatic, but they're all manual clocks. So again, if you're next to Johnny Lee Miller, all you're hearing is like, he's a walking time bomb. Literally.
[00:55:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Also, one of the traps is like, I think three crossbows.
[00:55:57] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:55:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Like that one guy gets hit with three arrows.
[00:56:00] Paul Scheer: Didn't need that.
[00:56:01] Jason Mantzoukas: That are fired. I, I don't know from what, but I gotta assume crossbows.
[00:56:05] June Diane Raphael: Okay, but here's my question about that trap. The initial trap before that trap set off is. Is someone getting electrocuted in the water? Maybe?
[00:56:16] Paul Scheer: Oh, my favorite line in the whole favorite line in the whole movie.
[00:56:18] June Diane Raphael: Which was?
[00:56:20] Movie Audio: Lights out.
[00:56:23] Paul Scheer: Like basically it's like this action scene where he is trying to get, just get to reach down.
[00:56:29] June Diane Raphael: Oh my God. The first of all, that was a very long sequence of watching him.
[00:56:33] Jason Mantzoukas: So long.
[00:56:33] June Diane Raphael: Shoot out a, a cement wall, and he says that the, the breaker room's behind there. As he's shooting, I'm like, is he just gonna try to shoot his way in there? Are we gonna be watching this for.
[00:56:43] Jason Mantzoukas: I thought so too.
[00:56:44] June Diane Raphael: Hours. Yeah.
[00:56:45] Jason Mantzoukas: I thought so too. It, it was so drawn out.
[00:56:47] June Diane Raphael: It was pretty crazy. And then you realize, no, he's just shooting sort of, um, like footholds first.
[00:56:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Hand and foothold so he can boulder like, so he can free solo from one room to another so he can throw the circuit breaker so that he and Clifton Collins Jr. won't be electrocuted.
[00:57:05] June Diane Raphael: I tell you, when he started to free solo, I was like, I can't take this anymore. I can't.
[00:57:11] Jason Mantzoukas: But wouldn't the lights in the water, uh, flip the circuit breaker on their own? Wouldn't that surge flip the circuit breaker and turn it off?
[00:57:19] June Diane Raphael: I don't know about the engineering of the I don't.
[00:57:21] Jason Mantzoukas: That's what I was like.
[00:57:23] Paul Scheer: I think that that's an old building then. I feel like there's circuitry. Yeah.
[00:57:26] June Diane Raphael: But here's my question though. So initially the trap was you're gonna be electrocuted by the water, but then. And nobody was. Nobody I think happened to be. Okay.
[00:57:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Right.
[00:57:38] June Diane Raphael: But then there's a double trap.
[00:57:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, there were two watches, remember?
[00:57:42] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I don't remember, Jason. I actually don't remember.
[00:57:45] Jason Mantzoukas: So before that trap, before that trap, they found two watches. So, which says, this is the next one's gonna be a double murder, which it looks like it's going to be for a while.
[00:57:54] June Diane Raphael: I see.
[00:57:56] Paul Scheer: Got it.
[00:57:56] June Diane Raphael: So you first think.
[00:57:57] Jason Mantzoukas: And I think the misdirect is.
[00:57:58] June Diane Raphael: What's his face, but then it's.
[00:58:00] Jason Mantzoukas: You think it's gonna be those two guys that are in the water.
[00:58:03] June Diane Raphael: But then it's just one.
[00:58:03] Jason Mantzoukas: What's that?
[00:58:04] June Diane Raphael: But then it is just one.
[00:58:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:58:07] June Diane Raphael: Oh.
[00:58:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Because they survive.
[00:58:09] June Diane Raphael: The first one didn't go off.
[00:58:11] Jason Mantzoukas: But again, it would've been three.
[00:58:14] If both LL Cool J and Clifton Collins Jr. Had died in the electrocution and those guys shut the water off and got the crossbow arrows, three people would've died.
[00:58:23] Paul Scheer: Right. He could. He could have been done.
[00:58:25] Jason Mantzoukas: The movie is a mess.
[00:58:26] Paul Scheer: The movie, like it's almost like he could have like, so I guess at any given point the movie could have been over.
[00:58:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:58:32] June Diane Raphael: Well.
[00:58:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Or at any given point the movie could have started.
[00:58:36] June Diane Raphael: It both could have started and finished.
[00:58:38] Jason Mantzoukas: The movie exists in like liminal space.
[00:58:42] June Diane Raphael: Okay. It's time outta time, but.
[00:58:45] Jason Mantzoukas: It really is.
[00:58:46] June Diane Raphael: So, but here's my question though. I know he references this and there's a flashback to Johnny Lee Miller at the front of the line on the front lines heading toward that boat. But what is the justification for why he was in the front when the bomb goes off on the boat?
[00:59:01] Jason Mantzoukas: I think so he can set off the bomb.
[00:59:03] Paul Scheer: Even though it was a very simple trip wire.
[00:59:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Retroactively. Now that we know he's the bad guy, I think he needs to blow up that boat so they can't get off. He need. So I think he's purposefully was sabotaging.
[00:59:15] June Diane Raphael: He was the closest one to it. I mean, put himself.
[00:59:17] Jason Mantzoukas: I know, but he's also crazy.
[00:59:18] June Diane Raphael: That's true.
[00:59:19] Paul Scheer: But I think he probably figured it all out. I mean, he seems again. Say what you will about Johnny Lee Miller. He, he's planned a lot of stuff and he, and he and with, with very, uh.
[00:59:28] June Diane Raphael: You know, what knows how, like why are we drilling down on three murders versus two? Yeah. You know, he did plan a lot of stuff and a lot of stuff worked.
[00:59:35] Paul Scheer: He, he's pretty effective.
[00:59:37] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:59:37] Jason Mantzoukas: And when I say it's like the Game Mouse Trap. That is what it's like, it is like, oh, it, everything feels on the verge of being a Rube Goldberg machine. Yeah. A Rube Goldberg murder machine.
[00:59:50] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:59:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, which is the name of my punk rock band.
[00:59:52] Paul Scheer: I love that.
[00:59:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, and, and it really is like, so convoluted, you know, like the one, the crossbow one that makes the most sense. Turn this wheel crossbow go. Great. Yeah. Okay. I love that. Some of the other ones are so weirdly, like truly non.
[01:00:09] June Diane Raphael: Why drain his blood?
[01:00:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Why? And why write all of those numbers?
[01:00:13] June Diane Raphael: In blood?
[01:00:13] Jason Mantzoukas: In the blood to communicate that this.
[01:00:15] Paul Scheer: He's a real sicko guys. You, you ever, ever profile of anybody? I mean, I, I know a lot about this world.
[01:00:20] Jason Mantzoukas: But they don't, they, they have no interest in solving any of the mysteries.
[01:00:24] Paul Scheer: No.
[01:00:24] Jason Mantzoukas: They just wanna find the traps.
[01:00:27] June Diane Raphael: Here's the thing. Just wanna find, but here's the thing. They should have really started not just pointing fingers and trying to shoot each other and, uh, blaming each other, but really started to try to find out a lot about each other.
[01:00:40] Paul Scheer: That's the movie.
[01:00:41] June Diane Raphael: Absolutely. And it's like, well, Johnny Lee Miller, like, why did you, what were your parents like, like what happened?
[01:00:47] And also why did he kill them?
[01:00:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:00:51] Paul Scheer: Because he is a sicko. That's all we need to know. We just need to know he's a killer and a.
[01:00:54] June Diane Raphael: 10-year-old sicko Paul?
[01:00:56] Paul Scheer: Hey, I, it's. I don't smell 'em. I just tell 'em.
[01:01:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh boy. Oh God.
[01:01:05] Paul Scheer: I, I'm just telling you what the what the what is. Look, obviously we had opinions about this movie. The people out there with a different opinion.
[01:01:12] June Diane Raphael: God.
[01:01:12] Paul Scheer: Uh, Wolves of Glendale play us in.
[01:01:15] Music: [Second Opinion Song].
[01:01:18] Paul Scheer: So surprisingly. Jason, uh, earlier in the podcast you said, I, I had never heard of this movie. Many people have not. Uh, this is one of the.
[01:01:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay.
[01:01:26] Paul Scheer: Lowest, uh, seen films that we've done in a long time. I know this because only 735 reviews for a movie that came out 20 years ago. That's pretty low for us. Um, 77% are five star reviews and
[01:01:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[01:01:41] Paul Scheer: Um, yeah. And, you know, look, there's, this is.
[01:01:43] Jason Mantzoukas: So the people that found it loved it.
[01:01:45] Paul Scheer: Well, yes. And, and you know, and a lot of them are just taking, uh, a lot of anger out on the people who didn't like it, you know?
[01:01:53] June Diane Raphael: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:53] Paul Scheer: You know, they don't listen to those couch potato critics who gave it one star.
[01:01:57] Its better than that. Right. We, we've read of those a million times, but I'm just gonna kind of hit ones that I thought were a little bit better. Like Patricia Fentress, who, uh, title to review
[01:02:08] "Gotta say, I outright love this film dot, dot, dot And you will too, I'm sure."
[01:02:15] Now, uh, Patricia writes,
[01:02:17] "This was an amazing movie. I have to be honest. When I saw the DVD on the shelf, I wasn't too sure about it. The cover caught my attention and so did the title. So I picked it up, took a look at the cover, and, and a little better saw one of my favorite rappers and actor was in it. And I said, Hmm. And I took a look at the preview in the back and after reading the preview, I was still left a little unsure, but I was interested 'cause LL Cool J was in it. And I thought about it for a bit because I was a little disappointed in some of LL's earlier movies, you know, Deep Blue Sea, Caught Up and H2O. But I said, hell, I'll try it. And after watching the movie, I am glad I picked it up. Because it is for sure going into my growing DVD archive for Good. If you like LL Cool J like I do, you'll for sure love his acting in this one. And if you like really good whodunits cop movies, movies that keep you guessing and scratching your heads or movies leaving you saying, I would never have thought of that, or I never knew or saw that coming, or really did decent action movies or thrillers, then this is a movie for you. You'll for sure love this movie. Or even if you wanna try to get into one of those kinds of movies. This is kind of a great one to start off with. It for sure left me floored with my mouth open, saying no freaking way, how in the hell and just left in awe. I cannot say how much I enjoyed this movie. It is a must. See."
[01:03:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. Oh boy. I mean, not just an, an incredible review, but it beautifully acted.
[01:03:56] Paul Scheer: Oh, yes. I mean, one of the best now.
[01:03:58] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, really, I, I will say like, you brought that to life.
[01:04:02] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[01:04:02] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, and if, because you're just listening at home. But if you were to be watching Paul really find the nuance, really find this, the truth of.
[01:04:12] June Diane Raphael: To you.
[01:04:13] Paul Scheer: You know, this is the way I kind of am able to get my acting out. You know, it's like they don't pay me to act, they pay me to wait. Uh, it's, it's, I'll act for free whenever, get a chance. Um.
[01:04:23] Jason Mantzoukas: It's so interesting. I will say, now that I'm thinking about it, LL cool J, I Think stealthily becoming, uh, a How Did This Get Made All star.
[01:04:31] Paul Scheer: Absolutely. And, and, and, and by the way.
[01:04:33] June Diane Raphael: I gotta say, I love watching him on screen.
[01:04:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, he's so watchable.
[01:04:36] June Diane Raphael: So endlessly watchable.
[01:04:37] Paul Scheer: You know, my parents made me, um, destroy my LL Cool J album when we were on a Born Again Christian
[01:04:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh god.
[01:04:45] Paul Scheer: Moment. Um, because they had heard about LL Cool J and you know, and it was, and it was the, um, bad album, you know?
[01:04:52] Mm-hmm. So, uh, it was early LL and, and, uh, man. That was, it was a real rough moment because I saw my, like I, in my mind, if I could wear like the black leather pants and the big chain, yeah. I would've a kle hat. I would've done all that stuff. Uh, but.
[01:05:08] Jason Mantzoukas: And you didn't, you couldn't convince your mom that ladies love Cool J?
[01:05:11] Paul Scheer: I mean, I was trying to, I thought that she would be open to that, but no, she wasn't. Um, and well.
[01:05:17] Jason Mantzoukas: That's heartbreaking.
[01:05:18] Paul Scheer: You know, and I, and I.
[01:05:18] June Diane Raphael: It makes me so mad, like, as a parent now, I'm like, I wish you had just never gotten those albums. To have a kid get them and then have to destroy them.
[01:05:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah.
[01:05:25] Paul Scheer: I had to destroy 3 albums.
[01:05:26] Jason Mantzoukas: What was the mode of destruction?
[01:05:28] Paul Scheer: The album. Three albums were destroyed on three different occasions. One was, oh, poisons. Look what the cat dragged in. Had to break that album over my knee and then throw it in the trash can. And.
[01:05:38] Jason Mantzoukas: A vinyl?
[01:05:39] Paul Scheer: A vinyl.
[01:05:39] June Diane Raphael: Like also just take it from your child and walk away with it. Like the fact that you had to do the act.
[01:05:45] Take it out of circulation.
[01:05:46] Paul Scheer: Yeah. And, and, and it was a, it was a low garbage day, so I saw it in the garbage for quite some time. Like, oh, you know, so that was tricky.
[01:05:54] June Diane Raphael: You have to stop. You have to stop this.
[01:05:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Heartbreaking.
[01:05:56] June Diane Raphael: No, this is too much for me.
[01:05:58] Paul Scheer: Well, and then, uh, the, the other one, uh, was In Excess Suicide Blonde. That was a cd, uh, because my mom thought it was promoting suicide.
[01:06:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, oh, okay.
[01:06:09] Paul Scheer: Even though that song is not about promoting,
[01:06:11] Jason Mantzoukas: it's not at all that. No, but Okay. That I would, 'cause I was like, In Excess makes no sense.
[01:06:15] Paul Scheer: No sense. Uh, that CD was just taken from me. I didn't have to destroy it.
[01:06:19] June Diane Raphael: Okay.
[01:06:19] Paul Scheer: But I had the case, but never had the CD again. And then, um.
[01:06:24] June Diane Raphael: That's too much.
[01:06:25] Paul Scheer: The LL Cool J was tricky because LL Cool J was a, uh, a tape. And, um.
[01:06:32] June Diane Raphael: To tape over it?
[01:06:33] Paul Scheer: No, I, it was a, it was a tape that was like bought at the store, so it wasn't like, uh, that
[01:06:38] June Diane Raphael: Oh.
[01:06:38] Paul Scheer: Uh, and um, I had to smash it with a hammer. I remember where I was on my front porch.
[01:06:46] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I honestly cut, cut.
[01:06:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.
[01:06:49] June Diane Raphael: Stop the recording. I cannot take anymore.
[01:06:52] Paul Scheer: Uh, that was a tra that was that the LL Cool J was the one that hurt the most because I just loved it so much.
[01:06:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Do you think there's a listener, do you think there's anybody who listens to this podcast for whom they discovered it at a young age and their parents said, you can't listen to this.
[01:07:10] Which like, are we the LL Cool J to anybody in the audience?
[01:07:14] Paul Scheer: Interesting.
[01:07:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Were you a young person who was told this is for grownups or something? You know what mean?
[01:07:19] Paul Scheer: I've talked to many people who tell me that they listen to this with their kids, but then their hand is very closely on the volume button because they never know when it's gonna be.
[01:07:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:07:32] Paul Scheer: Tricky. But they, but they are, they are taking that, they're taking that risk. Um, yeah.
[01:07:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay.
[01:07:37] Paul Scheer: Because we're not a dirty, dirty show, but every like, I think it's less about cursing and more about the sex.
[01:07:41] Jason Mantzoukas: No, it's really just language.
[01:07:42] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[01:07:42] Jason Mantzoukas: You know?
[01:07:42] Paul Scheer: Um.
[01:07:43] Jason Mantzoukas: But, um, I'm so cu I'm so curious. If there's anybody, if you're out there, you know.
[01:07:47] Paul Scheer: Let us know if your parents.
[01:07:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Let us know. Let us know if we were ever forbidden in your household.
[01:07:52] Paul Scheer: I will read you one other review just 'cause it was pretty good. This is from, uh, we had to go to IMDB to find more reviews 'cause Amazon was a little, uh, empty. We went to, uh, IMDB and found this one by Sweet, Lovely, Crazy Butterfly, uh, who also reviewed it in 2005.
[01:08:08] Both of these are from 2005. These reviews,
[01:08:11] "I have been reading comments where people say some situations are over the top and that they act silly and do stuff that are hard to believe. Well seeing as they are professional profilers and must have great minds, what did you expect? Of course the whole plot was a bit dramatic, but hey, the dude is crazy and brilliant. What did you expect? It's a fantastic movie and I failed to see why people are so into putting down great movies. I bet some sought twice just to find something wrong. Then again, I agree. Some actors could be different, but the whole team fits perfectly, so why the hell are you complaining? In my opinion, the best part was when they all fall asleep because of the coffee and when Sarah changes the time to stay 15 minutes behind. Really clever stuff, and Nick's death was the most well thought out in my opinion. Dot, dot, dot. Great job. Indeed. 10 outta 10."
[01:09:14] Jason Mantzoukas: What if one single person had said, I don't drink coffee. You know what I mean? Like, whoa. Oh, I'm just gonna, hi. I'm just gonna hydrate. I'm just gonna drink water.
[01:09:24] Paul Scheer: Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't need to get.
[01:09:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Just one. Yeah, just one person.
[01:09:27] June Diane Raphael: I have a weird reaction to caffeine.
[01:09:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Eh, I don't do coffee. You know, like I've never been in a room with.
[01:09:33] Paul Scheer: Everybody's drinking coffee.
[01:09:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Six or seven other people, and every person is like, yep, coffee, let's go.
[01:09:37] Paul Scheer: Um, I was right, uh, in my thought that this was shot primarily because a line producer saw an easy way in. It was because, um, this is a place, uh, uh, fake village that they were able to, uh, get, uh, used by the Dutch government.
[01:09:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[01:09:51] Paul Scheer: So it's a, it's a fake village where riots are.
[01:09:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Dutch government.
[01:09:54] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[01:09:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[01:09:55] Paul Scheer: Yeah. And so you can actually see a lot of Dutch writing if you look closely at the posters on the wall.
[01:10:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Funny. Now I love, see that's I, boy, I like that there's something interesting about that, but there's also something that makes no sense. It's really hard to put a serial killer story inside of only law enforcement.
[01:10:20] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[01:10:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Like there are no civilians being killed by Johnny Lee Miller. Right? Like he's only preying on FBI agents. Right?
[01:10:32] Paul Scheer: Hundred percent. That would be it.
[01:10:33] Jason Mantzoukas: And that's weird because you don't have that. It could happen to anybody fear. He is purposefully going after the best of the best, so it really doesn't make any, you would think that he would be leveraging killing innocence and there should be something. Innocent lives.
[01:10:53] Paul Scheer: If they were in a Trap situation where they had to find a serial killer in the, in the con, like, I mean, again, not the, not saying that even as a joke, but put them in a live situation where there could be a lot more.
[01:11:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Here's what it is, here's what it is. Even with the circumstances that there are that we have, the Navy is still there.
[01:11:09] June Diane Raphael: Perfect.
[01:11:10] Jason Mantzoukas: There's, there have been a series of deaths on this naval base on this island that the Navy so far has been unable to figure out. So they're bringing in the best of the best profilers, and they've gotta figure out, and then you find out it's, it's one of their own. And he's been going and killing Navy people and blah, who knows?
[01:11:30] I don't know what, but that they're, I guess then they are not innocent really either. I'm trying to, it doesn't matter.
[01:11:35] Paul Scheer: Here's what I say. So much work has been put into getting this script back at, but everyone agreed to this movie and worked their asses off. LL Cool J lost 40 Pounds, traveled with the Philadelphia Police Department for weeks to figure out how to play this character. Clifton Collins Jr. He, uh, decided to just take a wheelchair out to Hollywood Boulevard and acted, uh, in this way to make sure that he was playing it accurately. Here's the two things that I thought you would really like. Gerard Butler was supposed to play the Johnny Lee Miller role, but then dropped out. It was like, I'm out.
[01:12:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Would've been great.
[01:12:07] Paul Scheer: Now, the original cast that they wanted, it was supposed to be Ryan Philippi, Reese Witherspoon, uh, and uh, their boss was gonna be either Christopher Walken, Martin Sheen, or Gary Busey. Not not bad. Not bad.
[01:12:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Not bad.
[01:12:21] Paul Scheer: And uh, of course, uh.
[01:12:23] Jason Mantzoukas: And everybody younger, that's like a younger skewing team.
[01:12:26] Paul Scheer: I think is a little bit more fun. The other thing that was interesting is apparently there's an alternate ending where LL Cool J kills Johnny Lee Miller's character. And I have a feeling just reading that now for the first time that that's what we see at the end. Or no, I guess it's, uh, it's a, but.
[01:12:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Johnny Lee Miller's wearing a bulletproof vest.
[01:12:46] Paul Scheer: I dunno.
[01:12:47] Jason Mantzoukas: That's the, that's how he gets away with that. But like, what if LL Cool J had just shot him in the head?
[01:12:52] Paul Scheer: No, no one's doing head shots.
[01:12:54] Jason Mantzoukas: No. Yeah, nobody's putting one in the brain. Uh, uh, A La Johnny Casper, uh, in Miller's Crossing, uh, always put one in the brain. Nobody's doing that. Or John Wick, you know, body shot, body shot, headshot. You know, what are we doing here?
[01:13:08] Paul Scheer: And now, you know what, you may like Mindhunters, but I'm gonna stick with, uh, Ally Walker, Julian McMahon, and Robert Davey. Those are my profilers. Uh, four Seasons. Four Seasons. Oh yeah. Um, uh, any final thoughts on this movie?
[01:13:24] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I think you covered it.
[01:13:25] Jason Mantzoukas: This was, I will say, 'cause we're getting there. Not worth it.
[01:13:29] Paul Scheer: No.
[01:13:29] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, uh, not, not, not really worth it at all. My favorite, my, the thing that I loved the most, I love this era of Boxy Volvo. That when the, when in the opening cold open there, the whole thing takes place in a like old school boxy.
[01:13:44] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[01:13:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, uh, Volvo station wagon. I was like, give me this. I love it.
[01:13:48] June Diane Raphael: I had one of those.
[01:13:50] Paul Scheer: Oh, you did?
[01:13:50] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[01:13:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Great.
[01:13:51] June Diane Raphael: For a little spell. We had one of those and it.
[01:13:54] Paul Scheer: Wow.
[01:13:54] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. Bring them back.
[01:13:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[01:13:56] June Diane Raphael: People think, people like, I feel like car companies think we want these sleek looking, you know, curvy lines on cars.
[01:14:04] Jason Mantzoukas: They all look the same now.
[01:14:05] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. And we don't want that. And this.
[01:14:09] Jason Mantzoukas: I don't, we want unique looking cars.
[01:14:11] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. If this movie did anything.
[01:14:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Even if they're not the most aerodynamic, you know.
[01:14:15] June Diane Raphael: We, but who care? I mean, who cares? If the movie did anything, it did that, which was make us think about car design, cars and, um, representation in the automobile industry.
[01:14:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Mm-hmm.
[01:14:25] June Diane Raphael: I don't know what to say about this. Again, I think it was just hard for me 'cause I was so excited and I thought it was for me, and then it wasn't.
[01:14:32] Jason Mantzoukas: The setup put so many interesting things into motion.
[01:14:35] June Diane Raphael: That fell apart.
[01:14:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Including Val Kilmer. I was like, fuck Val Kilmer's gonna be in this place.
[01:14:41] June Diane Raphael: And I was excited about Christian Slater. Everything that I thought was gonna happen didn't happen, but not in a good way.
[01:14:47] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree.
[01:14:47] Paul Scheer: I will say one other thing if, because it did remind me so much of, of Law Abiding Citizen that if you've not listened to our episode a few weeks ago, uh, from Last Looks, I, somebody from the film, I can't name who they asked to be anonymous, uh, gave us some great details about some of those, uh, gimmicks and effects and, and what went in behind them and, and a whole bunch of stuff.
[01:15:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that's cool.
[01:15:13] Paul Scheer: And also sent me a picture. Uh, and June, this will mean nothing to you, but the wrap shirt was the, uh, the gun from the, funeral gun. The one that like pops up the robot gun.
[01:15:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[01:15:24] Paul Scheer: That's, that was the, the wrap shirt is.
[01:15:26] Jason Mantzoukas: That, was the wrap gift. Amazing.
[01:15:27] Paul Scheer: They, they knew what they were making. Um, alright.
[01:15:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Fun.
[01:15:30] Paul Scheer: Uh, well pleasure seeing you both here as always.
[01:15:33] June Diane Raphael: Always.
[01:15:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. We really did it. We really did it.
[01:15:37] Paul Scheer: Thanks so much for listening to How Did This Get Made. If you have a correction or omission from this episode that you want us to hear, well, you can leave us a voicemail at 6 1 9 PAULASK, that's 6 1 9 Paul Ask or write a comment on our discord at Discord.gg/HDTGM. Tune in next week to listen to our Last Looks episode. Where we respond to all of the best messages that you have left for us and we'll announce next week's movie that we'll be covering on the show. Plus, Jason is always joining me on Last Looks to chat about our favorite TV shows, movies, music, books, whatever's on our mind.
[01:16:10] Sometimes we just hang out and if you need even more How Did This Get Made before friday's new episode, know that we re-release classic episodes from the vault every single Tuesday. If you listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed to our feed and you have automatic downloads turned on in the show settings.
[01:16:26] That really helps us and we appreciate it. So make sure you got those automatic downloads turned on. And lastly, I gotta give a huge thanks to our behind the scenes team. I'm talking about our producers, Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds, our engineer, Casey Holford, and our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum. We will forever be thankful to the one and only Avaryl Halley.
[01:16:45] That's all I got people. See you next week. On Last Looks. Bye for now.