Disney's 1985 semi-sequel to The Wizard of Oz is more horror movie than children's movie and has more in common with Pan's Labyrinth than the 1939 original film. So what did Paul, June, and Jason think of all the dark oddities in Return to Oz? Tune in to hear them discuss the Wheelers, Tik-Tok the robot, Jack Pumpkinhead calling Dorthy "Mom", Billina the chicken being a total downgrade from Toto, and so much more. Plus, Jason shares his feelings on the Nome King's death by egg.
Disney's 1985 semi-sequel to The Wizard of Oz is more horror movie than children's movie and has more in common with Pan's Labyrinth than the 1939 original film. So what did Paul, June, and Jason think of all the dark oddities in Return to Oz? Tune in to hear them discuss the Wheelers, Tik-Tok the robot, Jack Pumpkinhead calling Dorthy "Mom", Billina the chicken being a total downgrade from Toto, and so much more. Plus, Jason shares his feelings on the Nome King's death by egg.
[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: Finally a movie villain that Jason can get behind. We saw Return to Oz. So you know what that means.
[00:00:09] Music: [Intro Song]
[00:00:10] Paul Scheer: Hello people of Earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made. I am your host, Paul Scheer, and today we are talking about a little known sequel to the Wizard of Oz. Yes. This was a big budget film made by Disney back in 1985. The IMDB Logline says,
[00:00:30] "Dorothy, saved from a psychiatric experiment by a mysterious girl is somehow called back to Oz when a vain witch and a gnome king destroy everything that makes the magical land beautiful."
[00:00:41] And wow. Here to discuss it all are my two co-host. Please welcome, uh, Jason Mantzoukas and June Diane Raphael. How are you both?
[00:00:49] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I. Traumatized.
[00:00:51] Paul Scheer: Yes. Truly.
[00:00:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Traumatized.
[00:00:53] Paul Scheer: Truly.
[00:00:53] Jason Mantzoukas: I found this to be, wait, have you guys seen this movie?
[00:00:57] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:00:57] Paul Scheer: Never.
[00:00:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I didn't know if this was a popular movie for like a younger generation.
[00:01:06] Paul Scheer: No, I am very familiar with, uh, TikTok, not the app, but the robot because that, uh, robot has been in a lot of, like, whenever they bring around like Star Wars stuff like TikTok, the robot is out in the about.
[00:01:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, interesting. TikTok the robot also looks exactly like, and I'm sure there's a reason for this. Uh, the robot in, uh, Genndy Tartakovsky's, um, Unicorn Warrior's Eternal has a.
[00:01:32] Paul Scheer: Oh wow.
[00:01:33] Jason Mantzoukas: TikTok robot character in it. That's the same.
[00:01:36] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, I just thought he looked like Monopoly man.
[00:01:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that too. Man. What? Like what a pervasive image that is throughout so many, like the, the upturned mustache, the monocle, all of that.
[00:01:48] Paul Scheer: A Potbelly robot is an odd choice. It doesn't seem functional in any way to give your robot girth.
[00:01:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, have you seen, and I don't know if either of you guys do this, 'cause sometimes I will, when we watch a movie, especially if it's old, I will check in on, uh, where they are now.
[00:02:06] Paul Scheer: Yeah, yeah.
[00:02:07] Jason Mantzoukas: And TikTok, the robot is definitely on Ozempic.
[00:02:10] Paul Scheer: Oh.
[00:02:10] Jason Mantzoukas: He is so skinny.
[00:02:11] Paul Scheer: Good, good.
[00:02:12] Jason Mantzoukas: He's so skinny right now. It's crazy. He looks like C3PO.
[00:02:16] Paul Scheer: Well, now the mustache looks too big on him. Yeah, it looks way too big.
[00:02:19] Jason Mantzoukas: So, okay, so you guys have not seen this, but was this, and Paul, maybe this is in your research, so forgive me. Was this a popular movie? Like what did this?
[00:02:29] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:02:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay. Okay. Okay.
[00:02:30] Paul Scheer: This, this isn't a moment, right? Just to set the stage. Disney's like, uhoh, what do we do? Right? And they don't know which direction to go in because they kind of lost their younger audiences. And this is the moment where they go. Oh, okay. We'll do Star Wars and they make The Black Hole.
[00:02:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, right.
[00:02:47] Paul Scheer: And then they go, uh, that didn't work. Oh. We'll make, uh, James Bond, they make this movie called Condor Man. Then they make Escape from Witch Mountain, which is great and scary.
[00:02:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Movie I love, love. Yeah.
[00:02:58] Paul Scheer: Awesome. And I think this is kind in that same vein of like, we're not the Disney that, you know, we're the, this Disney.
[00:03:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:03:05] June Diane Raphael: Here's what's interesting though. I, I'm, I just finished it.
[00:03:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Same.
[00:03:12] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:03:13] June Diane Raphael: I don't feel right.
[00:03:14] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:03:15] June Diane Raphael: I feel there's such, um. The Wizard of Oz is very important to me, and it's such a perfect movie that this Return to Oz and what they did here is really distressing to me. 'cause I'm like, let's say you are Disney and you're gonna go back into the property of Wizard of Oz and the books and all of it. Why would you choose to do this?
[00:03:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah, I agree.
[00:03:44] June Diane Raphael: And why? This is not a children's movie.
[00:03:46] Jason Mantzoukas: It's not, well, you know what it is though. It is a, it's a children's movie. When you think about maybe some of the other children's movies that are around at this time, this to me felt like Wizard of Oz meets the Dark Crystal.
[00:03:59] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:04:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, it felt like it was in a darker, scarier world. You know, like, and I don't know if this is in the books and they're just adapting the book.
[00:04:09] Paul Scheer: It it, this is two different books they've kind of adapted and put together as one. So it is, and I will say that the Baum Estate says, this is my Oz.
[00:04:21] June Diane Raphael: No, I understand that, and I've heard that before.
[00:04:24] Jason Mantzoukas: That's, that's interesting.
[00:04:25] June Diane Raphael: That's think the one thing I had heard about Return to Oz, which is that like, it is close to the source material in a way That Wizard of Oz is not. In terms of her age and also the darkness of it.
[00:04:36] Paul Scheer: Here's what I just wanna say.
[00:04:37] June Diane Raphael: And the, and the reality of it. Like that's, this is my main, this is my main issue is that of course, in the Wizard of Oz, she wakes up at the end.
[00:04:47] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:04:47] June Diane Raphael: And Oz was a dream. And in this movie, Oz is not a dream.
[00:04:52] Paul Scheer: No. Oddly, the house did fly away. It is in Oz, but yet. She also is a child that is going through, at least through her parents' eyes, a psychotic break. She's having like tornado, PTSD.
[00:05:06] Jason Mantzoukas: She's also institutionalized and on the verge of getting 1930s electroshock treatment. That was, you know, that was, that was the part of the movie that we, the movie opens. It's so, you know, and it parallels, uh, Wizard of Oz really well, in the sense that like the Wizard of Oz starts off black and white, and then once you get to Oz, it's color. In this version of it though, it's all in color, but the, the initial scenes are fully desaturated and it looks like they're in like days of heaven or something.
[00:05:39] Paul Scheer: I, I was gonna say that it, it is in color, but it somehow seems like it has less color than black and white. Like, it it is depressing.
[00:05:47] Jason Mantzoukas: It's looks dull. It looks like dust bowl era. Grapes of Wrath.
[00:05:51] Paul Scheer: Grapes of wrath. Yes. It's like, I was like, this is.
[00:05:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, we're so smart. Grapes of Wrath.
[00:05:55] Paul Scheer: We love it.
[00:05:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.
[00:05:56] Paul Scheer: When, when you see the home life of Dorothy, not to skip to the end, but why would she ever want to go back?
[00:06:05] The original Dorothy, I get why she wants to go. Like this, your parents are putting you in an institution. Like, a scary institution where they're strapping you down to a bed.
[00:06:16] June Diane Raphael: But here's this thing, but oh my gosh, this is why it's so, the emotional, there's no emotional connective tissue between the two films. I mean, this isn't a sequel to The Wizard of Oz, as far as I'm concerned. This is sort of another telling of the book.
[00:06:34] Paul Scheer: This is more of a sequel to Hereditary than it is Wizard of Oz.
[00:06:38] June Diane Raphael: But like, but I guess that's why I'm just so confused because to when in the beginning of this movie, Oz is real, that wasn't a dream to her.
[00:06:49] Paul Scheer: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:50] June Diane Raphael: She didn't really, but more than that, I mean, that's distressing, but all of the deeply important lessons that she learned. That she taught herself through that dream about Oz, about, you know, what's important, what's important in life.
[00:07:06] Paul Scheer: Heart, brain.
[00:07:07] June Diane Raphael: About, about knowing what you already have and trusting it, that it's going to come from you. About imagination, about all these things, or completely like, thrown away.
[00:07:21] Paul Scheer: She seems duller. Like at, on her return.
[00:07:25] June Diane Raphael: And she's significantly younger.
[00:07:26] Jason Mantzoukas: And, and here's.
[00:07:27] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:07:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Here's which I'm okay with because I, I like that she is a younger, that I like that a younger person is being put in this kind of incredibly fantastical world. But what is so difficult to reconcile as I'm watching this is that the events of the Wizard of Oz have already happened to this person. To this child.
[00:07:49] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:07:49] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:07:49] Jason Mantzoukas: And that doesn't feel like what's happened. This feels like a prequel in many ways. And it is a undeniable sequel. And so what's, what I kept having a real trouble figuring out is she is already been through all this. Now obviously Oz is so different and, you know, everything has changed.
[00:08:06] Paul Scheer: Sure. Yeah.
[00:08:07] Jason Mantzoukas: But like it is so, um. It is so hard to keep track of, uh, it's so clear in the initial movie who wants what, who needs what and what the journey is.
[00:08:20] June Diane Raphael: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:20] Jason Mantzoukas: It's a real, it's a real Fellowship of the Ring, Lord of the Rings like we are on an adventure. These, uh, it's a found family. These are my people. Each of us has these components and we're gonna move forward. In this movie, I didn't know who wanted what. I didn't know what role they were supposed to be, uh, uh, uh, playing. I didn't understand the what's or the why's.
[00:08:41] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:08:41] Paul Scheer: I'll, I'll go one step further. This is a sequel to a movie that we've not seen. Right? Because at one point, she's flying true over a place and she like, oh, well this is the desert land. I remember I saw this.
[00:08:51] June Diane Raphael: Thank you Paul.
[00:08:51] Paul Scheer: When we were, what was when we were.
[00:08:52] June Diane Raphael: What was that?
[00:08:53] Paul Scheer: I'm like, wait, no, no, we don't know this.
[00:08:55] June Diane Raphael: And also when they say your shoes, your ruby red slippers, when the King of Gnomes or whatever he is says, your ruby red slippers fell off when you were flying back to. I don't know that term.. Did they?
[00:09:06] Paul Scheer: Let's give me, give me a little, like gimme a, like a, like, not a prequel, but gimme like a last time on. Like.
[00:09:12] June Diane Raphael: Listen, I felt like that this entire thing I was like, we are all being institutionalized. We are all, our reality is being questioned just like hers. And I don't know what the answer is.
[00:09:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Go ahead Paul.
[00:09:25] Paul Scheer: I was gonna tell you the, the most disturbing moment, and it, for me, it's right here in this, this part. And tell me if this hit you in the wrong way, that it hit me. Her brushing the hair of a jacko lantern that has no hair, but like her in that, that hospital room, just pretend brushing.
[00:09:45] June Diane Raphael: It's a horror movie.
[00:09:45] Paul Scheer: I was like, you know what, this is, this is the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.
[00:09:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay. So for me, in that same section. Uh, what I found absolutely bone chilling was that here is this doctor who is going to give her electroshock treatment. And the way he describes it is to make the machine have a face.
[00:10:08] Paul Scheer: Oh.
[00:10:09] Movie Audio: This electrical marvel will make it possible for you to sleep again, and it will also get rid of all those bad waking dreams that you've been telling me about. Now this fella here has a face. You see it? Here are his eyes, and this must be his nose. And this must be his mouth. What's this, Dorothy? Why, it's his tongue.
[00:10:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Here's this machine that's gonna rob you of who you are that's gonna give you this barbaric treatment. Uh, and it, and here's its eyes and here's its nose. And he's making it this cute, personifying it in a way that is so, that has such insidious malice to it. It's like, trust this machine that's going to destroy you.
[00:11:10] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:11:11] Paul Scheer: Yeah. And she sees a face in it. And by the way, I mean, I guess that's supposed to be TikTok or another question for you both. Is this a dream? It feels like it has elements of a dream and then elements that it's not. 'cause at the end. It could have been a dream. She better keep her fucking mouth shut though, when she comes back from this one.
[00:11:33] June Diane Raphael: That's the lesson though, Paul.
[00:11:34] Jason Mantzoukas: For real.
[00:11:35] June Diane Raphael: That is the lesson of the movie.
[00:11:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:11:37] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:11:38] June Diane Raphael: To keep it to you.
[00:11:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Keep secrets.
[00:11:39] June Diane Raphael: To keep your dreams.
[00:11:40] Jason Mantzoukas: Keep secrets.
[00:11:41] June Diane Raphael: And your imagination and your thoughts private.
[00:11:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, when it's like, when it is, whatever, 1930 whatever, you know, like kids weren't, nobody wanted to hear from these dang kids.
[00:11:51] June Diane Raphael: It's, but no, that's, that's the moral of the story.
[00:11:54] Paul Scheer: But this is a movie made in 1985.
[00:11:57] Jason Mantzoukas: I know.
[00:11:57] Paul Scheer: As a children's film. Like, it's like, like it does feel like, I mean, just, I wanna put it out there that this is directed by, uh, Walter Merch who, uh, wrote this, uh, as well. And Walter Merch. If you don't know one of the legendary, um, editors of our time. I mean, just like a, like.
[00:12:16] Jason Mantzoukas: A true responsible for so many of the movie.
[00:12:19] Paul Scheer: Ghost. Apocalypse Now. The Conversation. The English Patient. Like, The Godfather, like, he's like done it all. Um, you know, so like he is, wrote a book on editing, like definitely gets it. And I wouldn't say the movie is poorly edited, it just is like, it doesn't feel.
[00:12:37] June Diane Raphael: No, I do think this is a faithful adaptation. I think this is a faithful adaptation of whatever they were adapting. Those two books put together, the darkness of it, the childhood trauma. That her age. I think this is all, clearly it's faithful. There's no songs. That Wizard Oz is not written as a musical. There's no, uh, joy, there's no.
[00:12:58] Paul Scheer: No joy.
[00:12:59] June Diane Raphael: It is just a very, very dark tale about industrialization, I guess.
[00:13:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:13:05] June Diane Raphael: But it, it's so grim. But I do think it's, it is exactly what those books are now. I will say though, this is an example of why it is important sometimes to not at all be faithful to the original source material.
[00:13:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:13:21] June Diane Raphael: To really, like let go of this.
[00:13:23] Paul Scheer: Well, you know, June, I just wanna give you one little tip here that he wasn't just faithful to Frank L Baum's work. Walter Merch says that he used a lot of inspiration from a, from a book called Wisconsin Death Trip, uh, a 1973 historical nonfiction book about like diptheria in, uh, in Black River Falls between 1885 and 1910.
[00:13:47] June Diane Raphael: What the?
[00:13:49] Jason Mantzoukas: So I, I mean, clearly I'll say there's, this is a movie that has a lot of craft. You know what I mean?
[00:13:57] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:13:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Like it, there is a lot.
[00:13:58] June Diane Raphael: Absolutely.
[00:13:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Going into this. It is well made. It's, it's not like.
[00:14:02] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I have to say the hallway of Heads or whatever that was called.
[00:14:05] Jason Mantzoukas: The detachable heads. Yeah.
[00:14:06] June Diane Raphael: The detachable heads I thought was amazing.
[00:14:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:14:09] June Diane Raphael: I thought.
[00:14:10] Jason Mantzoukas: There's so many scary.
[00:14:11] June Diane Raphael: Unbelievable. And once you realize like, what's going on with those heads and what she's doing, and Princess, I thought it was really, really incredible.
[00:14:21] Paul Scheer: Were those heads that different? I mean, later in the movie, we find out that the gnome, uh, king had gave her a bunch of heads, so she would do his bidding. And I was like, it didn't seem like she was really exploring how many different faces she could possibly have. A lot of those heads seemed very like, you know, let's, let's get a shaved head. Let's get a cool, you know, like, let me gimme a, a couple, gimme a guy's head in there. Let's mix it.
[00:14:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, you want a punk rock head?
[00:14:45] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:14:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. The Mohawk. Um, I, I felt like it, what's so true is. I believe. Do I believe this? Maybe not. I, what I was gonna say is this is clearly a sequel to a book. The book was not what the Wizard of Oz was.
[00:15:05] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:15:05] Jason Mantzoukas: You know what I mean? Like, so what's curious to me is that they. Do I wish they had started with in 1985, what if we did a faithful to the book adaptation with the Wizard of Oz, with no songs, none of that stuff. We're just gonna do that in hopes of it working and them getting to then do this book. To continue.
[00:15:25] June Diane Raphael: Good point.
[00:15:25] Jason Mantzoukas: The world of the way that, um, and, and forgive me, this is not exactly a one-to-one, but the Arnold Schwartzenegger Running Man is barely an adaptation of the Stephen King story, versus Edgar Wrights, which is a much more faithful adaptation. And the movies are quite different as a result, in a way that is.
[00:15:44] June Diane Raphael: Totally. Give us the darker version of Wizard of Oz.
[00:15:48] Paul Scheer: That's what I'm saying. Give us a, give us like a.
[00:15:49] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:15:50] Paul Scheer: An overture. Just even give us a 10 minute thing. Like, okay, we got it, but, but what we're even seeing, 'cause we're supposed to feel connection when she meets the Scarecrow. I'm like, that's not my scarecrow. That that scarecrow is.
[00:16:00] June Diane Raphael: Ain't my scarecrow.
[00:16:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:16:01] Paul Scheer: And, and by the way, I'm also feeling like, well, my scarecrow is now my, Pumpkin Jack. Uh, which by the way, Tim Burton has admitted he has used inspiration for Jack Skellington.
[00:16:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, you know, oh, you got, I mean.
[00:16:14] June Diane Raphael: By the way, one of the most chilling moments to me, my scariest moment was when Pumpkin Jack started calling her mom.
[00:16:21] Movie Audio: Dorothy, may I call you mom even if it isn't so?
[00:16:29] Oh, thank you.
[00:16:31] Paul Scheer: Oh, no, no. That was.
[00:16:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Throughout.
[00:16:35] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:16:36] June Diane Raphael: I really, really distressing. And then even worse, she started responding to it.
[00:16:41] Jason Mantzoukas: I couldn't deal with it. Because 'cause she is, I'm gonna say, oh, this is Fairuza Balk uh,
[00:16:47] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:16:47] Jason Mantzoukas: In this performance. And it is.
[00:16:49] Paul Scheer: Young.
[00:16:50] Jason Mantzoukas: I will say I mean, she's gotta be like nine years old. How old is she? 10 years old.
[00:16:55] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:16:55] Paul Scheer: Yeah. She's very, very young.
[00:16:56] Jason Mantzoukas: She's a child when she's doing, I think this is a fantastic performance because in every single scene, but a handful, she is acting alone against inanimate objects. There is, there's, it's a pile of rocks. It's a pile of, it's like the, she's doing a great job in service of scenes where she has no scene partners. It's very weird.
[00:17:18] June Diane Raphael: Okay. I do agree that she's great. And the portrayal of Dorothy Gale. Um. I mean, Judy Garland's performance is one of the, the, you know, one of the best performances ever on film. But it's so childlike and it's so, um, innocent and beautiful and joyful. And, and.
[00:17:42] Jason Mantzoukas: You mean Judy Garland's? Yes.
[00:17:43] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:17:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:44] June Diane Raphael: So buoyant and so. I think vulnerable too. I think it's so beautiful and alive. Um, but there's something about Dorothy Gale and the Return to Oz that feels, even though she's significantly younger, playing an 8-year-old or a 9-year-old. She feels much older.
[00:18:06] Paul Scheer: Oh, she feels wounded.
[00:18:07] June Diane Raphael: It feels like her. Yeah. It feels, I and, and Judy Garland's playing like a 12, 13-year-old.
[00:18:11] Paul Scheer: I have nothing to say about the performance. It's, she, she is, she looks like she got the treatment, the shock treatment. Like she.
[00:18:18] June Diane Raphael: A thousand percent.
[00:18:18] Paul Scheer: She does not look happy. She doesn't like, yeah, she.
[00:18:21] Jason Mantzoukas: She looks like an actual 10-year-old from that era, like Judy Garland's skipping around with baskets and Toto and having fun and it, that's not her life in like.
[00:18:33] Paul Scheer: She's dust bowl.
[00:18:33] Jason Mantzoukas: In, in dust Bowl era.
[00:18:35] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. Depression. Yeah.
[00:18:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Like this little girl is.
[00:18:38] June Diane Raphael: She's been hungry before. She's gone to bed hungry many, many nights.
[00:18:42] Jason Mantzoukas: And the movie is done a disservice by purporting to be a Wizard of Oz sequel. Only because.
[00:18:50] Paul Scheer: Yeah. Don't call it that.
[00:18:51] Jason Mantzoukas: It's, it's, call it anything else. And we would've enjoyed it looked, it has more in common with Pan's Labyrinth than it does.
[00:18:58] Paul Scheer: Yes, yes.
[00:18:59] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, than it does the Wizard of Oz.
[00:19:04] Paul Scheer: Now, here's what I'll say, just, and I don't like to always do this in this show because it's not always about this, but I do wanna call this out, Fairuza Balk, who's in, you would say like 98% of the film, right? Um, she was not permitted to work more than three and a half hours each day, and she could only work between 9 and 4:30.
[00:19:24] And that had to include breaks and education in there. So to think about the production of this movie, on top of that, like, and you're right, she's in scene.
[00:19:34] Jason Mantzoukas: She's in all of it.
[00:19:35] Paul Scheer: She's in all of it. It's like. What are they getting?
[00:19:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Paul Scheer: Like what are we, what are we shooting at a certain point?
[00:19:40] Jason Mantzoukas: And how long did it take? And Oh, you know, like, and it's not like, oh, well when she is, uh, when we, when we lose her for the day early, uh, at least we can shoot, you know, all like, this happens on Percy Jackson because there's all this, so many of the kids.
[00:19:54] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:19:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Are young, young kids.
[00:19:55] June Diane Raphael: And you also become a pumpkin.
[00:19:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:19:58] June Diane Raphael: After what is.
[00:19:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. I, I am a pumpkin headed man on that as well.
[00:20:00] June Diane Raphael: Three half hours. Yeah.
[00:20:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, yeah. But all the kids, when they have to leave, we basically then turn around and shoot all the adults' coverage once the kids are gone. But there are no adults in this. There are no other people in this. There're not like, oh, okay, now that, uh, Dorothy.
[00:20:15] Paul Scheer: Get the chicken in here.
[00:20:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Has to go get that. We're gonna just shoot the chicken.
[00:20:19] June Diane Raphael: Fuck that chicken by the way.
[00:20:21] Paul Scheer: The worst. The worst, the worst. And the, you go from Toto to a fucking chicken? Come on.
[00:20:26] June Diane Raphael: That really upset me.
[00:20:27] Paul Scheer: Does she wipe her eye with that chicken when she's crying at one point? I felt like at one point she tears up and she lifts the chicken and I'm like, you can't wipe your eye with the chicken's feather.
[00:20:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Can I ask you guys a question about the Wizard of Oz, and I'm gonna admit something here that is perhaps uh, uh, an insane statement. I haven't watched The Wizard of Oz since I was a kid.
[00:20:47] Paul Scheer: Sure.
[00:20:47] June Diane Raphael: Okay.
[00:20:47] Jason Mantzoukas: This is not a movie that I rewatch or that I have any, any real like affinity for other than when it was on TV as a kid. I watched it and I watched it a handful of times. I don't remember. Toto didn't talk, did he?
[00:21:02] Paul Scheer: No.
[00:21:03] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:21:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Because the minute, 'cause she has a chicken at home and then when she's in Oz with the chicken, the chicken talks.
[00:21:11] Movie Audio: Some place for a chicken coop.
[00:21:14] When did you learn to talk anyway? I thought hens could only cluck and cackle.
[00:21:20] Bah. Strange, ain't it? How's my grammar?
[00:21:23] If we were in the land of Oz, your talking wouldn't be strange at all.
[00:21:27] Paul Scheer: And she's like, oh, we must be in Oz, because now you can talk.
[00:21:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Right. Which, but I, but then I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Did Toto talk when they went to Oz? And I, okay, good. Thank God
[00:21:36] June Diane Raphael: Thank God. But, but as Paul said like, the downgrade, the fucking downgrade.
[00:21:41] Paul Scheer: Yeah. A chicken.
[00:21:42] Jason Mantzoukas: This is a low, I mean, can you imagine being there for the first one and getting the lion, the, the, to, you've got Toto, you've got the, the Tin Man. You've got all these great characters. And the B team that shows up in this movie, I was like, oh, aside from.
[00:21:57] Paul Scheer: Expendables 7.
[00:21:58] Jason Mantzoukas: TikTok who I wonder if, if my character from John Wick three, uh, the TikTok man is in any way related to TikTok.
[00:22:05] Paul Scheer: I feel like they have to be, I mean.
[00:22:07] June Diane Raphael: I do wanna talk about TikTok because. I do think there is something going on about like machinery and I, but I couldn't, I don't ha. I don't, I didn't really like understand it. Like I know that they'll beware of the Wheelers and wheels and.
[00:22:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[00:22:25] June Diane Raphael: The industrial world.
[00:22:26] Jason Mantzoukas: I liked them as villains.
[00:22:27] June Diane Raphael: Taking over. Yeah, me too.
[00:22:28] Jason Mantzoukas: But visually.
[00:22:29] June Diane Raphael: But then there was TikTok.
[00:22:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:22:32] June Diane Raphael: And I was like.
[00:22:32] Jason Mantzoukas: He's kind of steam punky.
[00:22:34] June Diane Raphael: He's Yeah, but he's not the tin man.
[00:22:36] Jason Mantzoukas: No.
[00:22:37] June Diane Raphael: You know, who's worried about not feeling, who's worried about only being sort of, um, you know, metal and scraps and not being human, but that's not, I couldn't understand like, what is Tiktoks story exactly?
[00:22:53] Paul Scheer: To me. Well, to me. I think that TikTok is like, chill the fuck out. You can't be excited. Like TikTok is that, that machine.
[00:23:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:23:02] Paul Scheer: Right. So I think it's about controlling her emotions, but then at the end he kinda gets emotions, I guess, right? Like or
[00:23:08] Jason Mantzoukas: I think it's yes, yes to what we're talking about, but the movie is not doing us any favors to foreground it and say, this is the search that this per, that this character is on, or this is the.
[00:23:22] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:23:22] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, in a, in a way that I found just confounding.
[00:23:26] June Diane Raphael: No, and this like, we are, the, the TikTok, Pumpkin man and The Couch, to be honest, have all of the same emotional, like interior. I just, I couldn't like, and what's such a bummer about that is her friends on the yellow brick road and how beautiful, rich, important those performances, my god, like. To be saddled with. Not a single one of them has a human face.
[00:23:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh no.
[00:23:56] June Diane Raphael: Which felt very pointed. I didn't know if it was like, oh, those characters are so iconic. Like they're so physical and beautiful from Wizard of Oz that we are not even gonna try.
[00:24:11] Paul Scheer: No, they, they went to like a, like a cartoon. Like, I feel like, again, it's the, if you look at the images on the Wizard of Oz books, they are, they look similar to that. Like the way the Tin Man, I was like, Ooh, this doesn't even feel right here. Um, I do wanna bring up one.
[00:24:24] Jason Mantzoukas: So again, what we're up against is the, the decision to make the Wizard of Oz so much different from the books means that by, by participating in any future storytelling based on the books, it almost is unrecognizable to the movie Wizard of Oz.
[00:24:39] Paul Scheer: And I, and I, I'll tell you one thing. I saw the original Wizard of Oz recently, and, uh, the Scarecrow not that handsy with Dorothy originally. When he first wakes up, he is like, Ooh. I'm like, he's like, what? What's going on here? I, I'll tell you this much, uh, with TikTok.
[00:24:53] June Diane Raphael: But it's also the same exact beat. Like when she's stuffing the scarecrow with his hay and like when she's doing the exact same thing with Jack the pumpkin in this.
[00:25:04] Paul Scheer: Can I, the character that bums me out is Gump the, the animal who's having this crisis of conscious being like, was I alive before this?
[00:25:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:25:13] Paul Scheer: I remember a life before being a mounted animal. I'm like, Ooh, what? What is, is that?
[00:25:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Like everybody in the movie, like with the exception actually no. Including Dorothy are having existential crisis.
[00:25:31] June Diane Raphael: Oh, yes.
[00:25:31] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:25:31] June Diane Raphael: They're all in like deep psychic distress and it's, it's very uncomfortable to watch.
[00:25:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:25:37] June Diane Raphael: And, and oh God.
[00:25:38] Jason Mantzoukas: There's something about the changes to the Wizard. My guess is well, no, uh, books are what, tell me again. 1939 for the movie. Film is 39. And what were the books?
[00:25:49] Paul Scheer: The books 1890 is where.
[00:25:51] Jason Mantzoukas: 1890. Okay. So there's something about, to me, 1939, like the movie being like a post depression era movie. So to make it as bleak as what these books must have been, this is a bleak movie. You know what I mean? This is not a hopeful, joyful movie.
[00:26:10] June Diane Raphael: It's gets bleak in the middle and it ends in a pretty bleak manner.
[00:26:12] Jason Mantzoukas: So I can see them in the thirties being like, okay, we have just come out of one of the most awful periods of time. Let's. Yes. This source of material, but let's plus it up with some songs.
[00:26:24] Paul Scheer: Yeah. Let's make it it fun.
[00:26:24] June Diane Raphael: Absolutely. That's why people responded to it.
[00:26:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:26:27] June Diane Raphael: Absolutely.
[00:26:28] Paul Scheer: Not like, let's bum people. It's like, I don't see a better version. It's like, I don't wanna be in Oz. I don't want be in Kansas. I don't wanna be here. Yeah. I kind of wanna go back to that machine, erase it all. I'll be happier. I lemme just, and the girl who's living in mirrors, I'm like,
[00:26:44] Jason Mantzoukas: God.
[00:26:44] Paul Scheer: I I, I don't need any of this.
[00:26:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh. At the beginning I was like, oh, thank God she has a friend. And I was like, oh no.
[00:26:50] Paul Scheer: Nope. Nope. Nope.
[00:26:51] June Diane Raphael: Well, this, I think the thing that's also just so disappointing about this one is her journey in the Wizard of Oz is so clear and so relatable that that idea that there's someone's coming to save us that if we could just get, if we could just get this one thing, if we could just figure this out, if we could just get this one job or whatever, that's, that our lives will be unlocked and things will be so much easier and that someone outside of ourselves is going to make that happen. The moment in the Wizard of Oz, when it reveals that there's just no, nothing, you know, tiny man behind the curtain is so incredibly powerful.
[00:27:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:27:31] June Diane Raphael: For her emotional journey and in this movie, her, her journey I think is to prove, first starts off, to prove Oz is real, but then to restore it, but, for what? I guess.
[00:27:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, that's it. Like for what reason? How does that, like, how is that paying off anything that the movie began with, like where like any of the established wants or anything that the movie begins telling us is, is, is not even part of, uh, the resolution or, or, or where, where, or her pursuit of a resolution, you know, she is so much more of a passive character inside of this movie.
[00:28:17] The, the movie is happening to her. Whereas in the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy is inexplicably driving them forward towards the Emerald City, and in this one she is just reactive. It is just like, oh no. Oh, look at that. Oh, look at that.
[00:28:34] Paul Scheer: You know what it actually feels like. In a way it's like she's remembering the Wizard of Oz post a traumatic event. Like, like post her mind, right? 'cause it's like she's not really on a journey here. She's not really like, I guess she is trying to find the scarecrow, but she's really just kind of like looking at what happened before, right? I mean, like.
[00:28:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, she's also not trying to, because there's the, you could easily say like, oh, she's back. Nobody believes her.
[00:29:02] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:29:03] Jason Mantzoukas: She's older. She's like, oh, I need to be able to, for my own sake, uh uh, like.
[00:29:10] Paul Scheer: Right. I need to see it for myself again.
[00:29:12] Jason Mantzoukas: I need to prove to myself that this is real, if not to the people around me. So as, so as to not be perceived of as needing electroshock treatment, you know?
[00:29:20] June Diane Raphael: Well, but that's of course, that's confusing. It all falls apart when what, when we like confront the fact that it wasn't real.
[00:29:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:29:29] Paul Scheer: Now I, I do, I do wanna say one thing. I want like when our son talked a lot about Pokemon, we did get him electroshock therapy because he just was talking about this nonsense. We didn't understand it and it was like, and we just like get it out.
[00:29:41] We have to get it out. Um, and that, you know, that's fine to do. Uh, but I mean, but besides that, I think back then, it's barbaric. I mean, that's the thing, right? It's like she only is showing imagination. She's not even depressed about being away from Oz. She's excited to tell people.
[00:29:57] June Diane Raphael: But Paul, because she's staying up so late and can't sleep, she's not able to wake up early and tend to the farm.
[00:30:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:30:05] June Diane Raphael: I mean that's.
[00:30:05] Paul Scheer: We needed her to be a worker.
[00:30:07] June Diane Raphael: That is how the movie.
[00:30:08] Paul Scheer: Okay.
[00:30:09] June Diane Raphael: All starts off. She's not, that's why Aunt Em takes her there.
[00:30:11] Jason Mantzoukas: She's gotta work.
[00:30:12] June Diane Raphael: She's gotta work.
[00:30:13] Jason Mantzoukas: She's got to work. Otherwise she's gonna get left at the asylum.
[00:30:17] June Diane Raphael: A thousand percent. You can actually, in the world of Oz, be mentally insane as long as you wake up early and can help Aunt Em out with the farm.
[00:30:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Big time.
[00:30:28] Paul Scheer: Whoa.
[00:30:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Big time. Yeah. No, I think that's it. And again, this exists in a time when children worked. There are no child labor laws. There are, there is no, you get to be a teenager and go to college kid. That kid is gonna work that farm now, you know, at whatever, 10 years old.
[00:30:47] June Diane Raphael: That's why you have kids.
[00:30:48] Jason Mantzoukas: That, that is why you have kids and that's why you have a lot of 'em.
[00:30:51] June Diane Raphael: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Because you got a lot of farm to cover. And some of them aren't gonna make it, you know.
[00:30:56] Paul Scheer: And she's doing a damn bad job because you know what, she, by the way, the mom is threatening Belina. Right? She's like, if you don't shit another egg, like we, you're, we're gonna eat you. I mean, that's the other thing too. So she's like.
[00:31:06] Jason Mantzoukas: I would love it if she said, if you don't shit another egg.
[00:31:09] Paul Scheer: I mean that's, I mean basically that is like what she's worried about. Mom's like, we're going to eat your pet. The only thing that you have here, your only connection to life, we're going to eat that thing. And she's like, desperately.
[00:31:21] June Diane Raphael: Well, she has Toto.
[00:31:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Totos still rocking around.
[00:31:23] Paul Scheer: Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
[00:31:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Totos still rocking around, but boy if I'm Toto, I'm like, come, Hey guys, can I get some action? Like how come she gets to go back and I don't? Like it was the movie from Totos point of view is like, Hey, I'd like to go back to Oz as well.
[00:31:36] Paul Scheer: The Toto that I know would've. Followed that, uh, horse and carriage and jumped in the back and, and.
[00:31:42] June Diane Raphael: Yes. I felt that too. I felt that too.
[00:31:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Do you guys think, and maybe this is for the later in the episode, but if this, I can't even if this had no relationship to the movie The Wizard of Oz, but was just a 1980s, like, like, like I'm saying, like, uh, Pan's Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, right? Lab, Regular Labyrinth.
[00:32:05] June Diane Raphael: I might, I might feel different.
[00:32:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Would you enjoy a movie in which a little girl descends into a fan. Like an Alice in Wonderland type of a story that's dark and scary and I mean, I still agree. This is so aimless and I don't quite know who wants what and how, and I'm not tracking if we're getting closer or further away, but I, I liked a lot of the movie, if, if I'm being honest, watching the movie, I liked quite a bit of it, once I let go of the fact that any of it was gonna somehow be related to the movie that I remember as The Wizard of Oz, you know?
[00:32:40] Paul Scheer: Well, I didn't let go of that and I was simply disturbed.
[00:32:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:32:43] Paul Scheer: Like that. Like that was the thing. Like I was disturbed by.
[00:32:47] Jason Mantzoukas: But that's what I didn't mind.
[00:32:49] Paul Scheer: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:49] Jason Mantzoukas: I was like, oh, I don't mind like dark, kid, kid, like dark. This is scary. This is, I, I didn't mind that as much. I guess if I took it away from the fact, well then this, but this isn't Oz. This is, you know, this, I kept kind of bumping out by being like, oh, this is not the Wizard of Oz. This is like.
[00:33:09] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:33:10] Jason Mantzoukas: The Dark Crystal, you know?
[00:33:11] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. I mean, I think that it was very hard for me to divorce. From the Wizard of Oz. I just, I, I couldn't, even though there were things that I really loved too there, I loved that hallway of heads. I loved, you know, her trying to get the, the key or whatever it was from the headless, from Princess Mumbai.
[00:33:31] And there were, there were moments that were so great, but I also to not have any of the beauty of Oz or even to not have, like, the beauty of Glinda or this princess Oz in the mirror to not have any of like the magical beauty.
[00:33:50] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:33:51] June Diane Raphael: Was really hard for me. And even the way Dorothy was dressed, I actually took, I, I actually need to speak about this for a while.
[00:34:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Great. Let's go.
[00:34:01] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, clear the decks here.
[00:34:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Hold on.
[00:34:02] June Diane Raphael: Put your pads down.
[00:34:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Hold on. I'll, excuse me. I'm gonna mute mic.
[00:34:07] June Diane Raphael: Jason's muted. You know, I understand that you're not going to ever just replicate or, or reach the height of like what that iconic blue and white gingham dress was. And I get that. So don't even, so don't try to do that or a version of that, but to do what they did, to put her in that white, weird white dress, which I, I can't even track. Did it change from the asylum to Oz? I don't think so. Exactly the same. And it's like, it was so, um, not that it needs to be flattering on a 9-year-old child, but it was so sort of shapeless and strange. Billowy. It was all sleeves.
[00:34:52] Paul Scheer: It wasn't, there was nothing about it. Like if I'm a kid watching this movie, I don't feel connected in any way.
[00:34:58] June Diane Raphael: That's exactly my point. There's nothing for me.
[00:35:01] Paul Scheer: And by the way, I think her bows were too big in her hair.
[00:35:05] June Diane Raphael: Her bows were too big?
[00:35:06] Paul Scheer: Right. Too sloppy.
[00:35:07] Jason Mantzoukas: It felt to me like they were trying to be, I, I wouldn't be surprised if they were like, oh, no, no, we did the research. This is what a 10-year-old girl would have worn.
[00:35:17] Paul Scheer: And that's what kills this movie.
[00:35:18] Jason Mantzoukas: In these years. And, and so that is the movie we are making is a more grounded, more faithful representation. Uh, you know what I mean? In a, in a way.
[00:35:27] June Diane Raphael: Like when, but when I tell you, Jason, when those ruby red slippers came out.
[00:35:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:35:31] June Diane Raphael: I, I just was like, thank you for giving me something to look at.
[00:35:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:35:39] June Diane Raphael: To feast my weary eyes upon, and I, I did love, I thought it was like a wonderful little gender bending moment when the king gnome or whoever he was like, pulled up his little, pulled up his, that fabric that he was wearing to reveal those slippers.
[00:35:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:35:56] June Diane Raphael: I forget, there were moments I liked in here.
[00:35:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[00:35:58] Paul Scheer: Here's, yeah. I think if you're right, Jason, if you change your point of view on it, there's something very like weird. It's like it is to me.
[00:36:04] Jason Mantzoukas: What I love so much, what's weird about it is that it's a Wizard of Oz movie.
[00:36:08] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:36:08] Jason Mantzoukas: You know what I mean?
[00:36:09] Paul Scheer: Now here, you know, it's like there are these things about it that are very specific. It doesn't feel like what they were trying to do. Right. It feels marketed to a kid's movie. Here's the thing that upset me though, which is I'm okay, I'll take the, the, the, the dress, I'll take the, the like the less likable characters. I'll take all of that, but when you turn Oz back. Like, let me see something.
[00:36:37] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I totally agree.
[00:36:37] Paul Scheer: And it looks like the shittiest wedding venue.
[00:36:40] June Diane Raphael: Yep.
[00:36:40] Paul Scheer: Like on the outskirts of New Jersey that you could possibly get to. I was like, this is not Oz.
[00:36:47] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:36:47] Paul Scheer: This is a.
[00:36:48] June Diane Raphael: This is not my Oz.
[00:36:49] Paul Scheer: This is not my Oz.
[00:36:50] June Diane Raphael: Hashtag, not my Oz.
[00:36:51] Paul Scheer: Not my Oz.
[00:36:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Hashtag not my Oz. My Oz is Dr. Oz, who's, I haven't checked in within a number of years, but, huh?
[00:37:00] Paul Scheer: No. Oh, no, no, no.
[00:37:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, no. Is that?
[00:37:04] June Diane Raphael: Don't align yourself with him?
[00:37:06] Paul Scheer: You, yeah. You wanna get yourself on, uh, you wanna go Dr. Phil, that's the one that you wanna align with.
[00:37:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Phil, he is the one. Oh man. Oprah picks terrible doctors.
[00:37:16] Paul Scheer: Gosh.
[00:37:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Think is the, is the note there.
[00:37:18] Paul Scheer: I mean, or, or the power goes to their head. We already know that doctors have a, you know, they already have a God complex. You, you put 'em with Oprah, then they gotta go to the next level.
[00:37:30] I'm going to be thinking about this movie more than I should because there are images in it, and I need to talk about a character that's near and dear to you, Jason, which is the gnome, the rock monster Gnome, who does not want chickens in Oz. We don't know why he doesn't want chickens. And at the end of the movie, yeah, Belina the chicken, shits an egg down his throat and kills him.
[00:37:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:37:55] Movie Audio: Oh no, I gotta lay an egg.
[00:38:11] Poison. Poison.
[00:38:18] June Diane Raphael: Okay, wait a second. Does she know that that's poison to him?
[00:38:22] Paul Scheer: I think the chicken was just as scared.
[00:38:23] June Diane Raphael: And is that how you shit an egg? Like that's what happens physiologically. Like you get really scared.
[00:38:29] Jason Mantzoukas: My assumption was that the, the chicken knew that the egg would kill him because it's only visible slightly in one scene, he's wearing a medic alert bracelet that says severely allergic to eggs.
[00:38:42] June Diane Raphael: Stop that right now.
[00:38:44] Paul Scheer: You should have had a epi pen.
[00:38:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Which is a bracelet, which is a bracelet that my mother made me wear for my entire childhood.
[00:38:50] Paul Scheer: Oh man.
[00:38:51] June Diane Raphael: Jason, but you had to wear it.
[00:38:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, no, no. Without a doubt it was essential.
[00:38:56] Oh, no, no. Essential. But a me, me wearing a, a little, a silver bracelet that just said, severely allergic to eggs on the back of it engraved.
[00:39:06] Paul Scheer: Oh my gosh. But you know.
[00:39:08] June Diane Raphael: Like it breaks my heart, but I'm also like, yeah, hey, good.
[00:39:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Thank God.
[00:39:13] June Diane Raphael: Good, good.
[00:39:15] Paul Scheer: Like, you know, I, I do, I, you know, I thought that there was something really, uh, odd or interesting about the fact that instead of just, well, he just wanted chickens gone.
[00:39:24] Like, he had like a, a chicken genocide, uh, in Oz, uh, in a way, you know, it's like he like, and only because the fear that that might happen. I mean, and he got it good. He got it. He got it.
[00:39:36] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. Oh, god. Did he ever. I mean, did that feel healing to you in some ways, Jason?
[00:39:39] Jason Mantzoukas: It really, yeah, it, it really brought something home for me. You know, it really, I felt as though all of my angst and anxieties with my, uh, allergy, really, this. This was a a, a salve. I bet it really helped.
[00:39:57] June Diane Raphael: I bet.
[00:39:57] Paul Scheer: Could you have been this person, you know, Jason could, if your mom didn't make you that bracelet, could you have, could you have become a gnome knight, you know, gnome king and freezing everybody?
[00:40:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, if, if my parents had simply, if my mother had simply said to me, uh, chickens are the threat, you know what I mean? Instead of, people are the threat. Right. People are gonna give you eggs. So that my trust, my, uh, I, I learned to not trust people. But if I had been told, don't trust chickens. Much different. Much different.
[00:40:29] June Diane Raphael: And we wouldn't have, maybe we wouldn't have the podcast. Maybe, like, we can't go through those sliding doors. 'cause, you know, everything kind of happened for a reason, is what.
[00:40:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Sure.
[00:40:37] June Diane Raphael: How I think of it.
[00:40:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah. And let me be very clear, there would be no chickens on earth because the last 45 years of my life would've been spent just murdering chickens.
[00:40:48] June Diane Raphael: Oh God.
[00:40:49] Paul Scheer: I mean, yeah. They don't really get into why the chickens are outlawed or how he got rid of the chickens.
[00:40:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Nope.
[00:40:53] Paul Scheer: But I, I'm gonna say it definitely was not, uh, it was not pleasant. I mean, he is a, he tortures, I mean, the fact that he does that little game with them.
[00:41:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, to turn them into ornaments?
[00:41:05] June Diane Raphael: Oh yes. To ornaments.
[00:41:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:41:08] June Diane Raphael: To ornaments. And by the way, like, but then when we see them, they're not ornaments as we know them. Although they're.
[00:41:14] Paul Scheer: Just like.
[00:41:14] June Diane Raphael: But to call them ornaments.
[00:41:16] Jason Mantzoukas: To call them ornaments rather than
[00:41:17] June Diane Raphael: Creepy.
[00:41:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Tchotchkes.
[00:41:18] June Diane Raphael: Yes,
[00:41:20] Jason Mantzoukas: I would've loved it if everybody got turned into curios turned into curios and tchotchkes. Um, but I, but I actually, I will say, um, that was one of the things that I actually liked.
[00:41:31] June Diane Raphael: I did too.
[00:41:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Which is when she goes into that room and that room is. You know, like there are these elements that they're playing with that I thought were fun at times, where it's like they're in the stone cave and it's all, it looks like a stone cave and he's made of stone, he's part of the cave, blah, blah, blah.
[00:41:46] And then when she goes through the thing into like an opulent, beautiful sitting like castle level sitting room, you know, it, it has like it, there, there are visual things that I felt like were like, oh, this is cool. And then all the ornaments around that you realize, oh, these were people, or these are people or things, I guess that he's changed into these ornaments.
[00:42:09] And, and I dug that. You know, there's, there was stuff in here that I liked. I just wish I understood the why, you know?
[00:42:16] Paul Scheer: Right. Yeah.
[00:42:17] Jason Mantzoukas: In service of what?
[00:42:18] June Diane Raphael: Something in there about the Earth's resources.
[00:42:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep. Yep.
[00:42:22] June Diane Raphael: And him feeling like they were stolen, but that, that sort of fell apart for me too, because of her argument, which was like, well the scarecrow, it was already Emerald City.
[00:42:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:42:34] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:42:34] June Diane Raphael: When he started to reign there.
[00:42:39] Paul Scheer: Right. So there's a world in which he was also like the, the Wizard of Oz was all powerful, but then the gnome knight was just waiting in the wings.
[00:42:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, no. What's interesting is the Wizard of Oz was not powerful. He was just revealed to be a man. But what then this movie suggests is, but don't worry that lesson, don't learn it because there is an all powerful bad guy.
[00:43:02] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:43:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, and that is this guy, you know?
[00:43:04] Paul Scheer: But what I'm saying is like, in the world of Oz, people were scared of the wizard because he had portrayed himself.
[00:43:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes.
[00:43:10] Paul Scheer: As the all powerful, but yet, and with a big, crazy face. But yet there was a man with a big, crazy face.
[00:43:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:43:16] Paul Scheer: And that's the thing, if you're gonna make a sequel to the Wizard of Oz, and maybe that's where I'm coming down on this whole movie, it's like, why are we doing the same? Why does she have three companions? Why does she swap out the dog for the chicken? Just do a whole different event. Not every journey to Oz needs to go on a, a trek to a place, and then a, uh, you know, a coronation at the end.
[00:43:35] Jason Mantzoukas: It, it, it's so interesting because it's like we have, and it's different because it's a retelling, but let's just use as an example, the Wiz.
[00:43:45] Paul Scheer: I like The Wiz.
[00:43:46] Jason Mantzoukas: As another installment in this story's, uh, evolution because The Wiz. Is a riff on the Wizard of Oz, the movie obviously not the book. So, so like, and that is unquestionably incredibly successful and a, an amazing movie, you know.
[00:44:04] So to me to get from there, I'm like, we've now had multiple generations where we have institutionalized the version of these characters and these stories where they sing and it is colorful. Why make this so drab? Why? And I get it, it's the books and you can say that all you want, but you really. I think.
[00:44:27] June Diane Raphael: Oh, i'll never say it. I'll never say it.
[00:44:29] Jason Mantzoukas: No, no. I mean them, I'm sure that was their thing. You know, the, them being like, well, no, we're taking it back to the books. You know? Um, but then why if the books are so much less, uh, visually enjoyable, I guess.
[00:44:43] Paul Scheer: I mean, look, it's a real bait and switch. That's what we're saying here. It's a real bait and switch. Now put Tony Collette in there. You know, give me, uh, the, again, I gimme a cast.
[00:44:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Just doing Hereditary.
[00:44:54] Paul Scheer: I do want Hereditary. I'm all for it.
[00:44:56] Jason Mantzoukas: I would love an Ari. Ari Astor needs to start making the rest of the L Frank Baum, uh, books.
[00:45:02] Paul Scheer: Oh yeah. Let's get it. Let's start from the beginning. I wanna see it from his perspective the whole way through. But, 'cause I do think this is a horror movie. It's about a girl who is about to go through very traumatic electroshock therapy. She escapes through her imagination, but which is not actually her imagination. I mean, I think the ending of this movie, and I think that they pulled away from it, is. She wakes up and you see the doctor pulling the, the, the two things away from her head. And, and she's like, she's like, oh, where am I? And he is like, you're home.
[00:45:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:45:35] Paul Scheer: And then they wheel her back out and that's it.
[00:45:37] Jason Mantzoukas: And that that would be great. That would be great. And what if he was like, he know, he said something to the effect of like, like, do what, what do you think about Oz? And she was like, what's that? You know what I mean? Because isn't that what they say in the beginning is you won't remember it?
[00:45:53] Paul Scheer: Or or like they go, here's your key back. She's like, what is this?
[00:45:57] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:45:58] Paul Scheer: And then she just starts, blood just comes out of her nose. This one nostril.
[00:46:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. And she starts to float in the air.
[00:46:03] June Diane Raphael: Okay. But in this movie, Return to Oz is the woman. Is the woman who, uh, like the head nurse at the institution. Is she in jail at the end? She, she in a jail horse carriage?
[00:46:19] Paul Scheer: Apparently. Uh, so apparently there's a lot of deleted scenes that did not make it into this film. There's like a work print that people have seen and so much so that I, I, I found 'em to be like, there's A through J of deleted scenes here.
[00:46:32] Jason Mantzoukas: That's a lot.
[00:46:32] Paul Scheer: Uh, but the idea being that she basically was, uh, there are other prisoners, not prisoners, patients that were like abused and mistreated and kept in the basement.
[00:46:41] Jason Mantzoukas: You know what this is like? Sucker Punch.
[00:46:43] Paul Scheer: Oh yeah.
[00:46:45] June Diane Raphael: Oh, interesting. Of a vague, vague memory of it. But yes.
[00:46:47] Jason Mantzoukas: 'Cause there is a world in which the first Oz is she's in a coma from, you know, the tornado.
[00:46:56] And there's a world in which this one is the entirety of Oz is during her electroshock treatment. Like it is always a trip inside the mind rather than a real trip into a different world. Um, there's a Jacobs Ladder scenario potentially happening here. You know, like there's just, ah, boy, I just wish the movie. Hmm. Because that would be a fun, scary movie, little kid, scary movie. Yeah. You know, um, to descend into a world that isn't joyous and full of song, but is nonetheless full of characters that you need to befriend and help them on their journeys.
[00:47:34] Paul Scheer: And, and, and, you know, Jason, I, I, you know, and, and June, I apologize for saying this right now, I, I don't like to get into politics, but I did not like the fact that they elected the Scarecrow as the King of Oz. I felt like Where, how did we decide that? How did, like, he was a weak, he was a straw man. Literally a straw man.
[00:47:54] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, and we see what happens.
[00:47:56] Paul Scheer: We got can't put scarecrows in power.
[00:47:57] Jason Mantzoukas: We got scarecrow in power and the entire, he, he, he spent all of the emeralds and, and the, the country fell. All of Oz fell into complete disarray. The infrastructure.
[00:48:07] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:48:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Is out of control. The yellow brick road is all torn up. The, there's no infrastructure going on. There's no.
[00:48:14] Paul Scheer: Wheelers out there to clean it up, you know, this is what I'm saying.
[00:48:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, oh God. The wheelers are unchecked. They don't have badges.
[00:48:24] June Diane Raphael: Oh, the Wheelers.
[00:48:25] Jason Mantzoukas: I thought the design of and the execution of those Wheelers was cool as hell.
[00:48:31] Paul Scheer: Very cool.
[00:48:31] Jason Mantzoukas: I I like that.
[00:48:32] June Diane Raphael: It was. Those wheelers were incredibly unsettling in a great way, in a very compelling way.
[00:48:40] Paul Scheer: Uh, they were, I think, scarier than the monkeys, because I think that's, they were supposed to be.
[00:48:43] June Diane Raphael: A thousand percent. Monkeys, but they were scarier because they were human and they were scarier because they were chaotic.
[00:48:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:48:51] June Diane Raphael: In a way that the monkeys seemed ruled by something. Like the wheelers had an energy to them that was just so, um, like just they, they seemed completely out of control and disorganized.
[00:49:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, their movements are so foreign.
[00:49:05] June Diane Raphael: Yes.
[00:49:05] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, those big long front arms ending in wheels like monkeys, uh, flying are just monkeys flying Everything in the Wizard of Oz kind of went normal-ish. These guys looked like it, it felt like, like body horror, you know?
[00:49:21] June Diane Raphael: Yes, exactly.
[00:49:22] Jason Mantzoukas: This felt like David Cronenberg's Return to Oz
[00:49:26] Paul Scheer: Crash. I would like to see crash with the wheelers. Now here's the thing. Um, when Oz turns back, the wheelers are still wheelers. I thought the wheelers would be like normal people, but they're just still wheelers. They're just nicer wheelers.
[00:49:39] June Diane Raphael: Because here's the thing, they weren't the wheel. I actually, I don't remember where even the wheelers came from, but I didn't get the sense.
[00:49:44] Paul Scheer: From the gurney.
[00:49:45] June Diane Raphael: They had been. What do you mean?
[00:49:47] Jason Mantzoukas: What do you mean?
[00:49:47] Paul Scheer: Oh, oh, the, like if we're trying to find like the connection of like the wheelers are the guys pushing the gurney when she strapped down to the gurney in the real world.
[00:49:56] June Diane Raphael: Oh, okay. But it didn't seem like they were. Like the people who were transformed into stone, like other members of Emerald City, like they had been different things before. The ornaments had all been different things. Like the wheelers just seemed to exist there as wheelers.
[00:50:12] Paul Scheer: I agree.
[00:50:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. They seemed like a gang, you know?
[00:50:15] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:50:15] Jason Mantzoukas: And they, and not for nothing. They did, and I, and I know this is Go, I said they were cool and I really liked them, but they also had a bit of a Starlight Express element to them.
[00:50:24] Paul Scheer: Oh. Big. I mean, that felt like they just grabbed him off the set. This was shot in the uk. I bet you they just say, guys can come over here?
[00:50:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Hey, yeah, you guy, you guys can come do this.
[00:50:31] Paul Scheer: Terrain is too rough.
[00:50:32] Jason Mantzoukas: Andrew Lloyd, we'll give you the day off.
[00:50:34] Paul Scheer: This is, I, I mean so much here. Obviously we have opinions about this movie, but you'd be surprised to, to find out that there are people out there.
[00:50:42] June Diane Raphael: I Okay. I'm not surprised. I am sure when I was watching this, I was like, I bet there's actually a lot of people.
[00:50:48] Jason Mantzoukas: That I, I, this is going back many years.
[00:50:50] June Diane Raphael: Or devotees. Yes.
[00:50:51] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:50:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Going back many years. I dated a woman who, this was one of her favorite movies.
[00:50:55] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. I'm not surprised.
[00:50:56] Jason Mantzoukas: From, from her childhood.
[00:50:58] June Diane Raphael: Not surprised.
[00:50:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Like from her era of.
[00:51:00] Paul Scheer: Well, I know why she dated you now because you reminded her of her favorite villain of all, the movie.
[00:51:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, she was, she kept calling me her Rock King.
[00:51:12] Paul Scheer: No, but she, and she did travel with, uh, skates on her hands and feet.
[00:51:15] Jason Mantzoukas: And feet, yeah. Not skates. Single wheels.
[00:51:17] Paul Scheer: Oh, by the way, I'll say this. You didn't know of this, uh.
[00:51:20] June Diane Raphael: I'm sorry. This movie being your favorite movie is a red flag for me.
[00:51:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.
[00:51:24] June Diane Raphael: That's a red flag.
[00:51:25] Paul Scheer: Alright. Uh, but you know, it's also like that peanut butter solution movie. Sometimes when you get traumatized by a movie very young, it can like seep in because it's like, it's almost like a, a rite of passage, you know, a badge of honor that you.
[00:51:37] Jason Mantzoukas: And I would wonder, and if you're listening to this and you are that generation for whom this movie was right in your sweet spot, I bet this was a good good, in quotes.
[00:51:48] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:51:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Scary movie for kids that wasn't so scary. You know what I mean?
[00:51:52] Paul Scheer: I I really wanted to show it to our kids. I was gonna suggest that to you tonight, June, but I.
[00:51:56] June Diane Raphael: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:51:58] Paul Scheer: Okay.
[00:51:58] June Diane Raphael: No.
[00:51:59] Paul Scheer: So. Now I will say this. Uh, obviously there are people out there with a different opinion. It's now time for second opinions.
[00:52:14] Music: [Second Opinions Song]
[00:52:32] Paul Scheer: Now, hopefully one of these, uh, is written by your ex-girlfriend, Jason.
[00:52:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that would be great.
[00:52:37] Paul Scheer: Uh, but I will tell you this much. There are 5,634 reviews for Return to Oz.
[00:52:46] June Diane Raphael: Wow.
[00:52:46] Paul Scheer: And, 80% are five star reviews.
[00:52:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Holy shit.
[00:52:51] Paul Scheer: Okay? 80%. Now some of these are written, uh, by The Wheelers, I think, 'cause it says a lot of, a lot of skid marks around here.
[00:53:00] Um, it says this, Sean Plorty, uh, says,
[00:53:05] "Make your kids watch this. It gave my daughter nightmares. 10 out of 10. Approved. Five stars."
[00:53:15] We gotta check on Sean, please. I don't think that that's the way to, to parent. Um, this one, uh, is, uh, this one is an interesting one because all of these are odd.
[00:53:28] KLW's title is, "I enjoy being able to share childhood memories with my children."
[00:53:33] Okay, great.
[00:53:33] "I bought the digital copy instead of the actual DVD only because I didn't wanna wait the two days for shipping. And I love that it is on our tv, computer, tablets and phones. We can watch it no matter where we are. Now, I do remember being a little creeped out by some of these characters. That hasn't changed. Luckily, my children aren't creeped out. They can watch this movie multiple times a day. The Wheelers and the Headless Queen are disturbing to me, but it's still a great movie. Just don't overthink it. It doesn't add up. Just go along with it. Five stars."
[00:54:10] Jason Mantzoukas: I don't disagree with some of those sentiments. Not five stars, but like, um, just go along with it is a good, because there is stuff in here that's interesting to watch. Just don't, if you're trying to find story in here, it's just not there.
[00:54:27] Paul Scheer: Um, I wanna say that, you know, while we have pointed out that there's not much here, a viewer, um, uh, who titled their review, "Most underrated major studio film from 1950."
[00:54:38] I don't know if that is right, right? It it is about, this movie, says
[00:54:43] "A strong statement on modern commodification, social alienation, and the ethical courage to pierce through it, which may appear tantamount to insanity. Truly underappreciated classic. Five stars."
[00:54:57] So I was saying like, like in in a world.
[00:54:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:54:59] Paul Scheer: In a world where insanity is being creative.
[00:55:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.
[00:55:03] Paul Scheer: Which I don't get. 'cause at the end she's not creative and she's, I bet she's just gonna work on that fucking farm again.
[00:55:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah. She can't do, and it's, I mean, it'd be so hard, the, the, the gravitational pull for somebody on a farm in Kansas to get away from that in 1930, whatever. Oh, I mean, impossible.
[00:55:19] Paul Scheer: It's a no. I'll tell you this much. The final scene of the film that was cut out is a, a minute and a half long scene of Dorothy and Toto playing in a field.
[00:55:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.
[00:55:28] Paul Scheer: And then here's my final review. Uh, 'cause I know we have to wrap it up. My final review is simply this from V. Title, "You know."
[00:55:36] Review.
[00:55:37] "You know, if you like it or you don't, so I don't know why you're reading a review and maybe you'll like it. Maybe you won't. Five stars."
[00:55:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. That's great.
[00:55:46] Paul Scheer: So there we go.
[00:55:47] June Diane Raphael: That's, I mean, I guess that's true.
[00:55:49] Jason Mantzoukas: It is.
[00:55:49] Paul Scheer: Uh, would you, I mean, I get, I mean, I don't know how to feel. Would you recommend it? I kind of, for me, I'll just jump in first say yes because it's so odd. It's so weird. It's worth a watch. I don't think it flies quickly by, but it is.
[00:56:03] Jason Mantzoukas: But it is almost two hours as well.
[00:56:05] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:56:05] June Diane Raphael: It's long.
[00:56:06] Jason Mantzoukas: It's long.
[00:56:07] Paul Scheer: It's long. And A through J is cut out, by the way. You should see the amount of scenes that are cut out of this thing.
[00:56:12] Jason Mantzoukas: That's an editor, that's an editor's movie. He's willing to cut out.
[00:56:15] Paul Scheer: Yes.
[00:56:15] Jason Mantzoukas: All those scenes.
[00:56:17] Paul Scheer: Well, I guess he, at a certain point, he is, he is gonna be making like a four hour opus over here. But I mean.
[00:56:21] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I think that if you can like, really go into it, putting the Wizard of Oz aside. I mean, an almost impossible ask, but I think that there was a lot of parts of this movie that I had fun just watching just because it was gonzo, nutso stuff, you know? Be, and lots of what we haven't talked about obviously is this is an era where, I mean, 1985, all of these fantastical elements, um, the pumpkin guy, the TikTok, all the, these are practical elements.
[00:56:57] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.
[00:56:57] Jason Mantzoukas: These are puppets. These are, there is a lot of cool stuff here to look at and be inside of. Is it a good story? Does it make sense? No. But is it like boring or uninteresting? No, I don't think so. I just think it doesn't hold together as a movie and it really doesn't feel like it's any kind of continuation of what I understand to be the Oz saga, even though I know it is.
[00:57:23] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:57:23] Jason Mantzoukas: But um, so yeah, I would say watch it, but if you can, I think you'll enjoy it more if you just are like, oh, I wonder if I can watch a 10-year-old girl be surrounded by horrors for two hours and still keep going.
[00:57:36] Paul Scheer: Yeah.
[00:57:37] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, I bet there's like, there's not really an overlap between people who love The Wizard of Oz and I consider myself one of those people love the movie and who love this movie.
[00:57:50] I think there's probably a lot of people who love the books. Deeply.
[00:57:56] Paul Scheer: Right.
[00:57:56] June Diane Raphael: And like are fan huge fans of the series and then love this movie, Return to Oz and didn't had issues with Wizard of Oz because it's not really faithful.
[00:58:07] Jason Mantzoukas: I bet. Well, I I bet that's true, and I bet the other thing that's true is I bet there's a lot of people for whom this was a movie that was constantly available to them to watch all the time, anytime. Like uh uh, on cable or on Disney Channel or whatever, like I bet this.
[00:58:26] June Diane Raphael: Was it? I mean, I have never seen any of these images before.
[00:58:30] Paul Scheer: I have seen these characters. I definitely have seen, but maybe I, but that's because I trolled video stores as a kid. Like it was like one of those ones.
[00:58:36] Jason Mantzoukas: I wonder if this was one of those things that like people saw more of this because it was more available and the Wizard of Oz felt like, well, that's so old. That's from olden days, you know?
[00:58:47] Paul Scheer: Oh yeah.
[00:58:47] Jason Mantzoukas: This is.
[00:58:48] June Diane Raphael: And yet this looked so much older to me.
[00:58:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah. I don't know. I'd be curious to hear from. Oh, actually I'm not.
[00:58:54] Paul Scheer: Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say.
[00:58:55] June Diane Raphael: Don't be too curious.
[00:58:56] Jason Mantzoukas: I'm not curious to hear from fans and I don't want to hear from fans. So, you know, uh.
[00:59:02] June Diane Raphael: Don't be too curious.
[00:59:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Scott, you can cut that straight out of the podcast.
[00:59:05] Paul Scheer: Alright. Uh, Jason, June.
[00:59:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. I, I, that I almost just made a huge mistake.
[00:59:09] Paul Scheer: Yeah, you really opened yourself up to a lot of conversations.
[00:59:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. I, I, I stopped myself midway through to be like, what are you doing?
[00:59:16] June Diane Raphael: Don't be so curious.
[00:59:16] Jason Mantzoukas: This is the invitation they've been waiting for.
[00:59:19] June Diane Raphael: Already said, I've already said it. People who love this movie, that's a red flag.
[00:59:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.
[00:59:24] Paul Scheer: Yeah. You know, and you know, the, uh, this is all I'm gonna say is that I hope that this brings you back together with your ex, Jason. That she finally understands that you have some appreciation for what she liked.
[00:59:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I did. Don't worry. I did text her to say we are doing Return to Oz on the podcast.
[00:59:41] Paul Scheer: Uh, Jason, June, do you wanna promote anything? Let anybody know what is out there, what they should be, uh, looking for?
[00:59:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, uh, sure. Percy Jackson, uh, season two's going on right now. Um, A Man on the Inside. Um, and if you're hearing this and you're in the New York area, I will be on Broadway in the show, All Out at the Nederlander Theater.
[01:00:01] You can get tickets now.
[01:00:03] Paul Scheer: Ooh, exciting, exciting. June?
[01:00:05] June Diane Raphael: Nothing for me.
[01:00:07] Paul Scheer: Alright, there you go. And I'll tell people, uh, I released this little mini documentary where I talked to, uh, Taylor Swift Dads and it's, uh, you don't have to be a Taylor Swift fan. You don't have to be a dad. You just have to be a human. If you're a child, you have a child. You've ever been to a concert, I think you might like it. It's 15 minutes. Can check it out.
[01:00:25] June Diane Raphael: It's so great.
[01:00:25] Jason Mantzoukas: And just to be clear, you mean Dads of Taylor Swift fans, not Taylor Swift's dads.
[01:00:30] Paul Scheer: Yes, that is. Yeah. I not, I did not get to talk to all of her dads. That is another documentary I'm working on. Uh, and a lot of people say, well, you, you're, you're digging. There's only one that we know of. I know There's more. I know there's more. Well, I'll get to the bottom of it.
[01:00:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Need to be done.
[01:00:43] Paul Scheer: I'll get to the bottom of it. Uh, alright, that's, if you listen to us on Apple Podcast or Spotify, please rate and review us. Also, make sure you're following us and have automatic downloads turned on.
[01:00:51] It helps the show and we appreciate it. And a big thank you to our producer, Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds, and our engineer Casey Holford, as well as our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum. And of course, we'll forever be grateful to the one and only Avaryl Halley. Thank you everybody for listening. Uh, we'll see you next time.
[01:01:05] Remember, give us your corrections and omissions, but not your opinions.